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Diving licences are nothing

Discussion in 'Basic Scuba Discussions' started by mad, Aug 5, 2004.

  1. mad

    mad Solo Diver

    In Italy there are no national rules or laws giving a value to our licences. We have only local laws in some areas but I wonder if it's right. Nevertheless limits in these areas are different for different levels, of course.
    The problem is that if the police ask your licence you're not probably supposed to have nor expecially to show your computer, they can only officially ask your documents.
    These are different interpretation of things.

    In your counties is it different? maybe with common law, different from our civil law system you don't need a national law, do you?

  2. Tobagoman

    Tobagoman Instructor, Scuba

    The police have no right to ask to see our "papers" here in the states, although many of them try. They forget that this country is a "free republic" and not a totallitarian police state. As far as dive cards, it is not governed by any state or federal entity.
    Many people in the USA think we live in a Democracy and not a Republic, shame on them!!
  3. mad

    mad Solo Diver

    sorry, I didn't mean to enter a political feeling but I think it's the same permissions policemen have in Italy...
  4. DennisS

    DennisS Marine Scientist

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Sebastian, FL
    There are people in Florida that want to start a diver license program. If it passes police will be able to stop you and check your license to insure you are legal.
  5. RDP

    RDP Barracuda

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: SW of Indianapolis, IN
    When I was in Florida the LDS held my card until I returned my rental tank.
  6. FreeFloat

    FreeFloat Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Somewhere in the waters of Lake Ontario or the St
    Québec has implemented something like that. If you're caught diving in Québec you need to have a provincially-issued card now. Of course, any legal program is only as good as its enforcement.........
  7. DennisS

    DennisS Marine Scientist

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Sebastian, FL
    They intend to use funds generated by the license for marine enforcement.

    Pay your money to the state so they can bother you on the ocean.

    DORSETBOY Instructor, Scuba

    what form of marine enforcement? dont get me wrong I hate taxes and hate paying them but I accept there are very often good reasons. In the uk for freshwater fishing you have to have a rod licence which is for a minimal amount, something like £12 per year - this money is then invested in conversation work, pollution monitoring and control, water bailiffs to monitor this resource, etc - none of these are bad reasons.

    Is the only reason for them insisting on a licence for them to fund 'marine enforcement' what do they mean by this? Are there any other uses intended for any funds derived from the licence such as conservation?
  9. Boatlawyer

    Boatlawyer Nassau Grouper

    In the U.S., the legal hierarchy is something like this:

    1. Treaties and Conventions (law controlling U.S. vis-a-vis other nations
    2. Federal Law (national law controlling its citizens and residents)
    3. State law (law of each state)
    4. County law (law of counties within each state)
    5. Municipal law (law of cities within each county)

    Those laws are divided into civil, criminal and quasi-criminal (ordinances and the like) matters.

    Our civil law is divided into statutory law and common law (judge-made).

    Our diving certifications are observed on sort of a common law basis, which means that the possession, or lack thereof, would likely only be relevant in a civil case to whether a defendant was acting prudently. For example if a dive shop filled tanks or a dive charter took on divers without checking C-cards and then someone got hurt, the failure to check the C-card would be used as an act of negligence to bring the shop/charter into the line of causation.

    Governmental bodies make laws under their "police powers" which exist to protect the public's health and welfare. They are reluctant to (and constitutionally prohibited from) make statutory law without a significant public health interest.

    For example if one person decides to tie helium balloons to a lawn chair in an attempt to fly (I did not make this up) and kills himself, it is unlikely the legislature would convene to draft a law against it. But if there was a trend and a good part of the public starting forming helium lawn chair flying clubs, resulting in death, injuries (increased insurance claims and hospital bills, reduction in the work force, and other social ills) then the government would likely act in the public interest, by either prohibiting or regulating the practice.

    Failing governmental action, risky activities are usually controlled by Darwin's theory (survival of the fittest and smartest) and by (you all are going to love this one) personal injury lawyers, whose cases establish common law standards of negligence and thus dictate standards of care.

    I would think that most divers, and related dive business prefer self policing as opposed to governmental regulation.

    But that's just my .02 psi.

    Theresa :dazzler1:
  10. simbrooks

    simbrooks Snr LayZboy Meteorologist ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Orlando, Fl
    Why dont boat owners have to have a license, or do they already have them, but it means nothing except they paid the fee, learned nothing and run over any kind of flag/buoy/person in the water that they see (or rather dont see) fit?

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