Diving "Modern" with "Vintage" Reg

[Nemrod]

After re-reading your first post, I recommend you find a good Sherwood (old style) double manifold. I recommend you mount your DA on the center post. I recommend you remove the outside post form the RH side and flip it to the LH side. Then mount--backwards---something like a Mares MR12 first stage or preferably the older and sleeker Voit MR12 first stage. The older ones--regularly available from ebay mount the hoses in perfect position. Also you can run the older round style Conshelf first stage back mounted. Don't worry about running into things, the set up I use remains low profile and is no more prone to damage than standard mounting and has been proven so--by me and several others who do it this way. I got the idea from Sea Rat who hangs on VSS and is the real Mike Nelson so it is not my idea. Custom bands can be found for the older manifolds even fromebay--brand new---Vic in canada comes to mind and I would mount the manifold on either modern Luxfer 50s or 65s.

Warning--since you have potential influence from the Dark Side, double hose regulators must be mounted as low and as close to your back as possible. LOW--get that tank LOW--LOWER----LOWER yet!!!!!!Nope---get it way down there-OK--good. Don't wear your tank hiked up over your head like the DIR people do---it is bad and sooner or later their guru will explain this to them and then the "swarm" will Do It Different. N

 

[fishb0y]

a BC is about useless and worthless in warm water diving.

It's funny that you say that. I was going to post that I have been having problems with my bouyancy since I started diving with only a harness with my lp72. It isn't that my problem is with the harness, it is with my bp/w when I have to switch over for my next dive (I am waiting on a 'J' valve for my other tank). My trim and bouyance is perfect without a BC (8# of lead), but for some reason when I put on my BP/W (also 8# of lead) I feel off.

 

[SwimJim]

For our dive club picnic, I mounted a '72 in my Pro-QD BC and put on my DA. I had to inflate manually, but thats okay. I had good trim and a sweet breathing reg for the dive. Who could ask for anything more. Diving double hose regs freak people out and thats half the fun.

Jim

 

[duckbill]

Here is information on the best hookah port adapter I've found on the market:
http://vintagescuba.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1150869721
You can then use a splitter to run your BC LP inflator, dry suit inflator, IP gauge, octopus, platypus, sour-pus, tire filler, air-driven impact wrench, AND whatever else floats your boat (as long as it's inflatable!).

By the way, you ONLY get the full low regulator-positioning advantage from a double cylinder set-up when you are able to turn the yoke DOWN between the cylinders where it belongs. Well, I guess it could be argued that twin tanks are shorter than a single cylinder for an equivalent volume, therefore you can wear them lower. O.K. But that's not really taking full advantage of the system. Turn it down if you have a choice. And use a HARNESS for best results.

Have fun.

 

[Nemrod]

fishbOy, I think that part of the deal with the BC is that since PadI teaches people who cannot swim a lick to dive and then has the audacity to call them Master Divers then therefore the BC has become a "lifejacket" so non swimmers can envelope themselves inside of a D-ring festooned and multi pocketed and flip up drink holder cocoon of safety and pretend to be a diver. OK. Y'all don't got any of them baggy britches bring a dive shop along with you X shorts now do ya?

Seriously, if a person scored a DA obviously used on ebay then I would have it reworked either by VSS or VDH unless you have previous experience with setting them up. Even if it appears to work just fine, because it maynot be. I bought a beautifful example of a DA on ebay and it worked great all the way down to 1,000 psi where it quit working like a vice was clamped on the hose!! Why you ask, somebody along the way had substituted parts from a different model. Let the experts set it up for you the first time so you will be able to enjoy it with no worries.

"Well, I guess it could be argued that twin tanks are shorter than a single cylinder for an equivalent volume, therefore you can wear them lower. O.K. But that's not really taking full advantage of the system. Turn it down if you have a choice. And use a HARNESS for best results"

Yes, excellent point, the center post should always be down and the Sherwood manifold works great that way as it was intended. The modern Hammerhead BP will set the tanks as close as a harness. The only thing between you and the tanks is the 1/8 inch aluminum plate. This allows the flexibility to dive vintage or with a wing using the same basic set up--for people who flip and flop between old and new like me and probably Peter. If you use a BP then you may have to fool around with the harness and set up on it to get it to sit properly LOW but I finally got mine to cooperate. I mention a BP because he did ask about modern diving with a vintage regulator and this allows a person to do that nicely. N

 

[fishb0y]

I agree with the BCD training wheels. Funny thing about it was I was less worried about the J valve than I was with diving without a BCD... and I am an excellent swimmer. Funny about the brain washing that comes along with modern gear. All it took was a few episode of watching Uncle Mike to realise that there was a time before BCs and pressure gages (although one would have helped this past weekend, funny how low a tank will go without getting water into it .

BTW... I only had 2 things inside my x-shorts, my marker and my wetnotes... its hard to stop drinking the DIR flavored kool aid.

 

[duckbill]

fishb0y,
I know you are diving in warm Hawaii, but there really is a rhyme and reason for BCs where wetsuits are needed. It is why they are called "buoyancy COMPENSATORS". Back in Mike's day there were very few divers, indeed, to impact the environment. There was no real need for concern. I'm not an environmentalist in the least, but I do understand the potential impact which would be caused by hoards of divers crawling all over the reefs and critters nowadays. I'm sure you understand that neoprene loses a substantial amount of buoyancy at depth which must be compensated for to remain neutral and OFF THE BOTTOM.
That said, I dive the local river sans BC because of:
1) current. I'm more streamlined without it.
2) current. The environment is constantly under attack anyway.
3) no need. The roof is no more than 30 feet up, the shore within another 50 feet, and I have at least 19 pounds of lift from my wetsuit once I drop my weight belt (Haven't had to, yet).

You warm water guys have it made! If properly weighted, you should never be more negative than the weight of the air in your full cylinder, at any depth.

 

[fishb0y]

Without getting too far off topic and discussing proper weighting, you should have enough lead such that you are neutrally buoyant at 10 ft, be it with a bc or without. The problem comes about when instructors are over weighting their students to the point of 5-10# negative (which is pretty significant, even for a strong swimmer). That is when the BC is obviously needed. I am diving alot with divers who are just out of OW now, and the first thing I do is show them how to 'correctly' empty their BC then second I show them how much lead they actually need. I dove with a couple about a month ago, both dropped over 10# each (they were wearing 3mm suits). Being an instructor myself, I wish other instructors would stop treating a BC as an elevator.

Sure there is some wetsuit compression you would need to worry about, but unless you are diving a 7mm Farmer John, then I think it is minimal, especially with the newer wetsuits. Granted, while I dive with a 3mm, I am fairly consistent down to 80 feet.

Now I am advocating every diver drop their BC and go the way of Uncle Mike, of course not. I think Nemrod put it best, no reason to repeat him.

 

[Luis H]

Diving in Maine with thick thermal protection I have very little choice but to use a BC. I dive with either 7 mm two piece wet suit (of highly compressible neoprene, 14 mm around the core) or a 7 mm dry suit.

I grew up diving in Puerto Rico. In the 70's my 35 year old Fenzy was only used as a surface flotation device, as it was originally intended (left picture of my avatar). “The Divers Parachute” was the original slogan for the Fenzy.

Using a BC attached to your tank (wing, jacket, or whatever) you have to use a crotch strap to keep the rig from rising on you. In the picture of me (with my original Royal Aqua Master) above I was not using a crotch strap and that is why my tank is so high. You need the crotch strap to control the position of the rig or the air in the BC will work it up even if it started in a good position.

A tank mounted BC is always a compromise since the air in the BC will always try to lift the tank from your back. This in turn will tend to increase breathing resistance. I am always trying to think of alternatives. My latest experiment is using a gel heat pack inside my wetsuit to reduce the amount (thickness) of neoprene needed for comfort, and therefore reducing the air in the BC.

I found (IMHO) the best way to use a crotch strap is from the bottom of your back pack/ BC to the front of your weight belt. That way if you ever decide to release your weight belt the crotch strap will also release and will not interfere with dropping the weight belt.

The crotch strap also controls the weight belt down and keeps everything in its place. With it you can adjust your weight belt up or down, which is all you need to adjust your trim to perfection (in most any position, not just horizontally).

 

[james croft]

I use a 3 mil suit with a DA Aquamastern on a steel 72,and no bc. I get by with using 4 pounds of lead to get neutral in fresh water. But of course I am also carrying a manly knife and a big brass wrist guage that add some ballast. I sure don't miss my weight integrated stuff. Diving a double hose rig is almost as good as swimming naked.