DIVING OVER 50 YEARS OLD

[Lorenzoid]

giffenk, does "plain jane" travel insurance typically cover evacuation costs, such as a helicopter flight? I haven't done as much comparison as some of you participating in this thread, but I have always bought DAN insurance based on a vague presumption that DAN covers the cost of and has special expertise in arranging transportation to a facility they deem appropriate for dive accidents and then coordinating with the local medical personnel to arrange chamber treatment if necessary. Were it not for the twist of DCS being specific to our sport, and DCS treatment requiring prompt transportation to a specific type of facility, then yes, I would just go with general travel insurance. Is my ignorance showing?

 

[KeithG]

giffenk, does "plain jane" travel insurance typically cover evacuation costs, such as a helicopter flight? I haven't done as much comparison as some of you participating in this thread, but I have always bought DAN insurance based on a vague presumption that DAN covers the cost of and has special expertise in arranging transportation to a facility they deem appropriate for dive accidents and then coordinating with the local medical personnel to arrange chamber treatment if necessary. Were it not for the twist of DCS being specific to our sport, and DCS treatment requiring prompt transportation to a specific type of facility, then yes, I would just go with general travel insurance. Is my ignorance showing?

Evacuation cost? Mine? Yes...much more than DAN does. There is nothing special about scuba. If you need to get treated, then you need to get treated. Insurance is really only a $$ decision, not what or when.

My medical insurance limits "injuries" and "causes of injuries". It does not speak to (or limit!) treatments, except to limit the total $$ (and my limit is way beyond any DAN limits). Insurers do not care how the $$ is spent. Just how much. The topic you ask about is part of the FUD factor.

Why do you think DAN can arrange treatment in some location that they have no knowledge of (as per a recent thread...)?

Go with the local experts. Get your insurance to pay for it.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
Why do you think DAN can arrange treatment in some location that they have no knowledge of (as per a recent thread...)?

Go with the local experts. Get your insurance to pay for it.

I guess I missed that thread. I have been under the impression that DAN acts as intermediary, and works with the "local experts" to ensure the diver goes to a facility that DAN, in consultation with the local medical personnel, deems appropriate. I don't trust the locals to know as much about diving medicine as DAN does.

 

[KeithG]

I guess I missed that thread. I have been under the impression that DAN acts as intermediary, and works with the "local experts" to ensure the diver goes to a facility that DAN, in consultation with the local medical personnel, deems appropriate. I don't trust the locals to know as much about diving medicine as DAN does.

I am not sure of the thread anymore, it happened in the last few weeks - the locals confirmed that there were NO local facilities and had full knowledge of where and how to get treatment. A DAN client was pissed that DAN misrepresented what DAN could achieve. DAN was unaware of what was available and how to best get service.

This issue is not a big deal for us as we dive with reputable operations that fully understand the local local abilities and experts. In general all of our dive trips seem to include an extra "voluntary" payment to the local chamber operator.

I think you need to distinguish between:
- DAN the dive research group
- DAN the marketing group
- some external third party low cost insurance provider that DAN relabels and sells at a profit...

 

[Lorenzoid]

Interesting. In those "DAN was there for me" articles in DAN's Alert Diver magazine, divers relate stories of how DAN took care of everything, from liaising with the local medical personnel to facilitating payment. It reads like the diver hardly has to do anything but forward all the papers to DAN. If there really are three different "DAN"s, these articles make it sound like they work seamlessly together. In my mind, I contrast that with how I know I would otherwise have to deal with an emergency, receiving bills (or, worse, being asked on the spot to pay out of pocket in some foreign country) from transportation services, hospitals, doctors, chambers, etc., and then having to persuade an insurance company that knows nothing about diving to cover it. Would DAN's hotline personnel, on the phone with local personnel, advocate a patient being sent somewhere for treatment that would not be covered by the patient's DAN insurance? This is the crux of the issue, as I see it. I trust that whatever treatment DAN's hotline personnel recommend, and wherever of the available locations they believe I should be sent, I am assured the transportation and treatment will be covered. No?

 

[KeithG]

Interesting. In those "DAN was there for me" articles in DAN's Alert Diver magazine, divers relate stories of how DAN took care of everything, from liaising with the local medical personnel to facilitating payment. It reads like the diver hardly has to do anything but forward all the papers to DAN. If there really are three different "DAN"s, these articles make it sound like they work seamlessly together. In my mind, I contrast that with how I know I would otherwise have to deal with an emergency, receiving bills (or, worse, being asked on the spot to pay out of pocket in some foreign country) from transportation services, hospitals, doctors, chambers, etc., and then having to persuade an insurance company that knows nothing about diving to cover it. Would DAN's hotline personnel, on the phone with local personnel, advocate a patient being sent somewhere for treatment that would not be covered by the patient's DAN insurance? This is the crux of the issue, as I see it. I trust that whatever treatment DAN's hotline personnel recommend, and wherever of the available locations they believe I should be sent, I am assured the transportation and treatment will be covered. No?

The "DAN was there for me" articles are written by the DAN marketing peeps. Of course they portray DAN as being awesome. That is their job.

Have you ever seen an Apple marketing brochure or advert that claimed the next iphone was going to be "just so-so"?

 

[Stoo]

The "DAN was there for me" articles are written by the DAN marketing peeps. Of course they portray DAN as being awesome. That is their job.

We had occasion to use them last summer when Mrs. Stoo had her leg busted on a dive boat in Quebec.

DAN was indeed awesome when it came to arranging her specialized transfers home. It took about two hours from the time they connected with the surgeon to arrange everything.

 

[Jayfarmlaw]

Not a DAN cheerleader but I have it. I make have drank the koolaid....but the thought of having to come up with a couple of grand for a chamber ride, or worse, for me or my wife scares me enough to pay $100 a year for that. My health insurance sucks....period. They may pay for the treatment by reimbursing me...maybe. Or they can pull the No PCP referral, out of network, etc excuse. It's my understanding that Dan takes care of the payment up front.

This post started with a potential horror story, an emergency hours away from anything resembling a trauma center, I would love to dive some of these spots, but this thread has made me realize that medical evacuation needs to be one of the things I consider before booking a trip.

 

[chillyinCanada]

I guess I missed that thread. I have been under the impression that DAN acts as intermediary, and works with the "local experts" to ensure the diver goes to a facility that DAN, in consultation with the local medical personnel, deems appropriate. I don't trust the locals to know as much about diving medicine as DAN does.

Mine too Lorenzoid

 

[tep]

I do have DAN insurance, even though the most exotic location I dive is Hawaii. I do expect them to know how to find a specialized doctor and a chamber, as well as help sort out travel. They are going to understand and work with special issues related to air or other travel as needed by a DCS patient.

I don't expect them to find doctors or chambers that don't exist in incredibly remote locations. Who could, really? As I said before, my limitations are my limitations. Having specialized medical care, chambers and such are necessary for me, and I'll pick my locations Just as I don't plan any cave or deep wreck diving, or 5 mile swims to get to a special reef.

Also, having worked in research, I'm willing to pay a (slight?) premium to help support the other DAN programs. Research ain't cheap. Just as I try to buy from the local dive shop (and did today in fact) so they will be there when I need them, I'm OK perhaps spending a little bit more for specialized knowledge and to make sure that DAN will continue doing its research.

I'm not a fan of the expensive glossy magazine, and I've been pretty vocal about that.

If you've got insurance that will get you medical care in out of the way places, and a medivac, then you don't need DAN and I'm cool with that. I don't think that most standard medical insurance provides for that, and I wouldn't want to find out after the fact that it didn't.