Diving rules? (Japan)

[Kim]

ifukuda -
i think you have misunderstood my post - or maybe I wasn'r clear enough. Mar Scuba made the original comment about Japan not being the land of the free - not me - I was just agreeing.
Japan claims to be a democratic country - so claims to be a free one. I agree that there are other countries which are just as bad - or were quite recently. I sincerely hope that Japan follows a more European style of liberalization than America - but as I said - it'll take time. It took a lot of time in other countries as well - Japan is simply a bit further behind.
Yes - I did confront my employers about what I found out. They didn't want to know. It's pretty much a 'take it or leave it' scenario. I have decided to take it for now - I didn't tell the story to moan or complain - just to point out what current attitudes here are. They also tried to control my holiday allowances - when they realised that I was about to personally sue the Mayor - and win - they gave that up very quickly. It's a question of picking your battles - you can't win them all. I live here on account of my wife who is the single child of her father (mother died some years ago) I love her enough to put up with what I dislike and stay here. Actually for the most part I have no problems - I like Japan. I have lived outside England since 1978 and have no problems with other cultures. I speak 5 languages.
This thread is about Japanese law - and how it's interpreted or not. I was simply offering an explanation based on my personal, valid experience. If anything that I said isn't true - please correct me. I am not on any moral high-horse however - and you don't know me well enough to presume some of the attitudes you seem to think I have.

 

[Ontario Diver]

KimLeece and ifukuda;

Thank you both for your insight. I have had the opportunity to work (however briefly) in Japan for a Canadian Owned company. I found it exactly as both of you have said.

I can remember that look on a gentleman's face when I (the tall hairy Gaijin) explained that I had a black belt in Kendo.

There is "truth" and there is "truth" .

Thank you again for reminding me of a land and a culture that is truely wonderful and sometimes hard to understand.

(Do the beer machines still close down at 11:00?)

 

[TJO]

The US Marines are always looking for a Few Good Men, and just about every Marine does a tour in Okinawa.

Or, were you thinking of another profession?

I am too old for that again ;-)

 

[ifukuda]

KimLeece,

It appears that my post did rub off the wrong way, for that I apologize. I think my comments would sound much friendlier if we were speaking in person.

I commend you on taking a stand on your holiday allowances. And, I guess I have to admire the fact that you're willing to buck up and stick it out in a crappy situation for your wife...I couldn't do it; you're a better man than me.

I am not on any moral high-horse however - and you don't know me well enough to presume some of the attitudes you seem to think I have.

But, I am not going to take back what I have said about you being on your moral high horse. You are. You're just don't see it. I found nothing offensive or incorrect about Mar Scuba's comment stating that Japan is far from being the land of the free. I agree, especially if I try seeing things from his perspective. But, you did alot more than just agree with Mar Scuba and comment on japanese law. You've suggested that Japan is somehow less worthy of being part of the international democratic community. You've also stated that we're somehow less capable of social change because of our "deeply ingrained attitudes and prejudices".

Japan claims to be a democratic country - so claims to be a free one

This is exactly what I mean, when I say you're on your moral high horse. Japan isn't claiming to be a democratic country, it IS a democratic country. Officials elected in open and fair elections make policy during their terms in office, just like they do in your country. If the majority of citizens are unhappy with his/her performance, he/she does not get re-elected...just they they won't in your country. You say Democracy = Freedom... no, I disagree. Is Iraq free? Democracy is just one of the factors required in a free society.You're redefining words like "democracy" and "freedom" to mean "like you," and making the claim that we're somehow less "democratic" because we're not living up to your Judeo-Christian standards on what a society should be like.

I think individualism is overrated, it's just the way I feel. It doesn't mean that I don't have an identity as a person. This isn't some character flaw needs to be cured.

No offense, but you're living in Kyushu...that's far from mainstream Japan. People of Kyushu are considered way backwards even by Japanese standards. I know that your views of Japan are based on real personal experiences, so no foul (I'll even apologize on their behalf for all of the crap you had to deal with m(_ _)m). But, you're not really qualified to make blanket statements about the entire country of Japan. I'm not saying that you should stop making them...but, people reading this thread should understand the perspective from which you are writing your comments.

you don't know me well enough to presume some of the attitudes you seem to think I have.

Actually, I don't know you at all. I'm just my making assumptions based on your posts (that's all I have to go on). So, please correct me when I'm wrong. But, I want to point out that you do not seem to understand Japan well enough to presume some of the things you have commented on.

 

[dcpac]

I did not mean for this thread to piss onyone off. I LOVE diving more than anything and it really upsets me that Japan has some great diving but due to fishermen and a law that is not clear or not inforced it makes some places restricted or more costly than it should be. I will be leaving soon but due to my wife being Japanese I will be back in a few years so I hope things change. I know it will take time but for those of you who plan on living here forever it might be good just to push a little.

 

[Kim]

dcpac - I don't think that anyone is pissed of - I'm not, and I don't think that ifukuda is either, although he is the one who knows that more than me. I am just trying to make clear the possible reasons behind your original question.

lfukuda - I'm sorry if my comments have rubbed you up the wrong way, but I think that you have misunderstood some of them.
I have not suggested that Japan is not worthy to be part of the International community. It surely is - but I believe it doesn't understand some things about what that community is yet. I am considered a 'gaijin' - in Kyushu, in Osaka, in Tokyo, in Sapporo - everywhere in Japan. Now what is a 'gaijin'? Basically - as you well know - it's an outsider - in confers some difference of being between the human being that is Japanese and every other human being. It is simply a form of racism that is illegal in most of the world. It's not illegal in Japan - they see nothing wrong with such a distinction - they see it as a matter of fact. I don't.
It's not something that really bothers me as I know that there is no such basic difference due to race or culture that separates any human being from each other. We are all the same - God's children - for better or worse. Most European countries, Australia, the USA etc are much more multi ethnic than Japan is today. They have already learnt many of the lessons that Japan still has to learn. Japan IS however learning. There are probably more 'gaijin' living in Japan now than at any time of it's history - and they are no longer confined to Nagasaki. As I said in an earlier post - this exposure, plus satellite television and more Japanese - such as yourself - travelling outside of Japan, is having an effect. You yourself compared Japan to other countries a few years ago, especially America:

Try think of it as a nation full of right wing Republicans...I know, I know, it scares me sometimes too.

The difference in the two democracies is simple - occasionally America votes in the Democrats. Japan has voted in the LDP in every election since the 2WW. Now that is scary. When a long time LDP candidate dies and in the next election his daughter (with absolutely no political experience) gets massively voted in - that's scarier still. I agree that everyone in Japan has a equal right to vote - I'm hoping that one day they will really learn how to use that right.

The original thread here though is about the law, and application of that law, in Japan. I made some comments about how the law is seen here.

Technically, it's not legal, it's not right, and it's defintely not pretty...but it's reality.

Actually I think that you agree with me!!!

Finally - lets look at my definition of freedom.
I believe freedom to be the right to live without outside hindrance or coercion - to hold any such personal belief that I wish, as long as it doesn't affect another person - and to be treated equally to others - regardless of race, creed or social position. Basically - to live my life the way I want to - as long as it brings no harm to another. Lastly, to have no tax without representation.

On a final note - I think that you should withdraw your comments about Kyushu - they are not half as 'backward' as you claim them to be - and I believe that you are demonstrating some of the pre-conceived ideas (may I say prejudiced!!?) that 'mainstream Japan' often exhibits - in this case against their own people. In fact Fukuoka today is probably one of the nicest cities in Japan. Have you ever been to Kyushu? Come on down anytime - I'll take you out, (the diving here is free from fisherman's charges), and I guarantee you'll have a great time!!!

 

[ifukuda]

dcpac,
I agree with KimLeece. Although he and I have fundamental differences of opinion, I believe our discussion has been civil and mature. I can tell that he's a good person...I'm sure we could be friends if we lived closer together.

KimLeece,
There is no reason to apologize for anythning you've said. I have thick skin. You're just stating your beliefs, just as I am. I am sure that I am misunderstand some of what you're saying, and I suspect you're misunderstanding some of my comments.

I agree that racism is a problem Japan. It's an embarassing aspect of our society. It's a shame that there isn't more legistaltion to protect the civil liberties of minorities in Japan. But fundamentally, the western counties (including yours) are not any less racist than we are. I deal with racism every day (at work and in personal life)...I've been assaulted more than once because of my race...There are parts of the the United States I dare not go because of my race. I've heard that England isn't a lot better from a friend who lives in London.

You're incorrect in your statement about the LDP. There was a period in the 90's when Shin-Shin coalation had taken power in Japan. But, this is a mute point. It has nothing to do with a nation being more or less democratic. If citizens keep electing the same party out of their own free will, how is it less democratic? You say the US is more democratic than Japan...I say, no way. The US presidency may switch back and forth between the two parties, but, it's barely possible to tell the difference between the parties anymore. Ever compare the number of political parties represented in the Japanese Diet to that of the US Congress?

Thanks for defining of freedom...
By your definition, I suppose Japan is far from being free. But so is England and the US. I've never made that claim that Japan is a free country. These are claims generally made by people of your culture...even though I often think it's far from the truth. But, I've stopped openly making statement like this along time ago, because I'm tired of hearing comments like, "if you don't like it, go home" and "just be grateful that we didn't drop more bombs on you."

I have no problems with you pointing out things wrong in Japan, because I agree that there are many things that need fixing. What I am having trouble with is that you keep reiterating that your society is somehow more evolved than mine, and that we need to jump through hoops to considered your equal. Isn't that racism?

Yes, I have visited many parts of Kyushu on business. Calling a place "backwards" is derogatory, I apologize. It was a nice place like you say. The point I was trying to make was, a city in Kyushu is not to be ethnically diverse as Tokyo, Yokohama, or Osaka. People from Kyushu are less likely to grow up with, go to school with, and come in contact with people of mixed blood, immigrants, and overseas businessmen.

But, thank you for your offer to show me around. Likewise, if you visit LA while I still live here, I'll be more than happy to show you around and dive with you. If you visit between October and March, maybe we can go catch a few lobsters.

I'm sorry that I've gotten off topic, I am afraid that you hit a nerve. But, I believe I've said everything I wanted to say. Unless, you would like me to clarify any of the comments I've made, I'm going to refrain from posting further threads. Good luck and best wishes living in Japan.

 

[Mar Scuba]

I'll sum up a few thoughts.

First of all, thank goodness I can't vote as a foreigner. Why would I want the responsibility of the Japanese government?

Regarding Kyushu, my anscestors are from Kagoshima and they wouldn't agree it was backwards, but perhaps they would prefer it to be their own country like in the fuedal days. I doubt anyone there would call it "international" like Yokohama, Tokyo, or Kobe.

Kim, with your one year contract, do you have to pay into the social welfare (pension) fund?

 

[Kim]

Kim, with your one year contract, do you have to pay into the social welfare (pension) fund?

Yes I do.

 

[Titan]

That warmed things up a bit ! ......

But I think we might be drifting off the point. It seems the consensu of opinion is that legally as divers we are in a pretty good position, but in practise that doesn't get us very far.

Steve's approach, while a nice fantasy (Own boat, own compressor, dive anywhere, no fees ) remains impractical for those of us outside Okinawa. Even if it were financially possible, as others have pointed out its socially unacceptable on a number of grounds. We just can't be fighting with the Fishermen, and from their point of view they have no need to change things.

That's the point ! I'm suprised no one picked up on the second part of my post.

So the question is how to speed up opening of access, improving the level of understanding, and reduce the cost.... all without getting into a fight.

Constructive ideas anyone ?

Titan