DM insurance - double indemnity?

[stuartv]

I have started the SDI Divemaster training with my LDS. At the end, they MAY offer me a "job" as a DM for the shop. If they do, and if I accept, then they will put me on the shop's insurance.

However, the reason I am doing DM training is that I would like to be able to lead trips for my club. I would like to be able to offer these trips without going through any shop. I'm not trying to make money. I'm just trying to setup trips and lead them, while giving the people who come on the trip some confidence that they can trust the trip leader, and while also having liability insurance to cover me in case something happens.

I expect that a common trip opportunity I would offer would be to go to NC to go diving. The NC boats have a DM on the boat, but the boat's DM does not get in the water (normally). So, I would not be the boat's DM, but I would potentially still be acting as a dive guide, for people who aren't comfortable jumping into shark-infested waters and swimming around wrecks on their own. I meet a lot of people around here who I don't think would want to go on one of those trips knowing that they will be completely on their own in the water. But, as a member of the club and getting to know me directly or indirectly, they might decide they would like to go and try those dives with me diving with them. (I realize that sounds kind of arrogant or something and I don't mean to sound like that - I just do think that a lot of divers I meet are intimidated by the NC diving prospects but would be game to try it with a buddy that they know is experienced there and especially if the buddy is also a certified dive pro) I just want to get more of the people in my club out diving - more than just the once a year trip to the Caribbean. And I want to do what I can to give them those opportunities without them paying a higher price to cover a shop's profit and/or overhead.

If I'm on the shop's insurance, it would not cover me if I were leading a trip that was not being run through the shop.

So, the question is, if I'm on the shop's insurance, to be covered when I'm leading a shop trip, can I still get my own insurance to cover me when I'm leading a trip that is not affiliated with the shop?

I told the shop owner that I want to lead trips for my club and he said that I could not be on the shop's insurance and also have my own insurance to cover non-shop trips. He said he thinks it is illegal.

Do I need to just plan on getting my own insurance and tell the shop that whatever else we work out, I don't want the shop to put me on their insurance? I suppose it might be moot in that they might decide if I'm going to lead club trips that are not run through the shop they don't want anything to do with me at all anyway.

Thanks for any words of wisdom.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Shop owner is wrong. There is no reason you can't have your own insurance. Sounds more like he doesn't want competition for trips. I'm guessing that if asked, he'd gladly put a trip together for your club. Taking a cut of course.
The insurance through a shop may be cheaper but it also comes with added risk if they get pissed at you and decide to drop you. Maybe in the middle of a trip. Get your own insurance and cover your own butt.
Better yet call one of the insurance companies yourself and ask them. Witherspoon is
(615) 599-0334
(866) 577-DIVE (3483)

Illegal? Jesus, the crap people will come up with.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I'll just add that the only way I would go on a shop's insurance is if I had absolutely no other choice. Here's the other thing with being on a shop's insurance, if they screw up and lose coverage so do you.

 

[Wookie]

And, your insurance is then limited by the shops other employees who are on the insurance, so if you have an insurable claim and the next guy had an insurable claim and it goes to trial (or in the case of Witherspoon, settlement), there isn't as much left to cover you.

Get a personal policy.

 

[lv2dive]

I would not consider becoming a DM without planning to carry personal (dive) liability insurance.

 

[stuartv]

Thanks, all.

I've been dealing with these guys at this shop for 2 1/2 years. The owner told me that the insurance they carry is better than what I could get on my own and very expensive. And knowing him as I do, I am inclined to believe that is a reasonably accurate statement. I'm not worried about them losing their insurance or booting me off it in the middle of a trip. So, if I can be on their insurance and also carry my own, that is definitely what I would want to do.

I really just wanted to make sure I CAN be on both. It would be nice for me if they do offer to have me as a DM for the shop. That would mean having their insurance cover me as my first line of defense, plus other perks like free VIPs, hydros, and air fills. But, if I couldn't have their insurance plus my own, then it would stick me with a tough decision.

 

[muzikbiz22]

Get your own policy.

 

[TMHeimer]

Don't know if this helps, but with PADIs insurance you can save almost half the cost if you just take insurance for assisting. This was my route since I had no interest in doing charters and the couple of courses a DM could teach (review, DSD, etc.) weren't financially worth the gas mileage. So, it depends on what you'd be hired to do at the LDS and what SDI has for personal insurance. Maybe a mix of both? I too can't see how being insured by two policies can be illegal. But I'm no expert.

 

[Got2Go]

Im not aware of any insurance that would limit your ability to get more insurance (Ex: from a different insurance carrier)
That benefits them.

I think the LDS might be mis-informed, or have other motives for telling you that.
(but I might be wrong)

Yes, get your own insurance that covers you properly as a DM guiding other divers.
And read the fine print to make sure you are getting what you think you are getting.

 

[Diving Dubai]

HI Stuart.

Firstly, let me commend you on your desire to get your club out diving. As a club diver myself I know that the majority of members want to sit back and have others organise dives on their behalf.

I don't have the necessary information on the peculiarities of the US system of needing insurance to CYA.

However from the standpoint of someone who does run club dives (outside the US) this is my take.

Firstly the SDI DM course seems very similar to the PADI version (which I'm currently undertaking) I'm also a BSAC Dive Leader which is an equivalent certification but does have some differences. Primarily BSAC go into a lot more detail with regard to charts and currents etc. I would recommend you gaining further information on this, however I suspect that @stuartv will already looking at that.

With regard to your first email - what you seem to propose is that you are more of a trip organiser/facilitator/co-ordinator. By that I mean you are posting a dive trip and cajoling people to get the required numbers and being the liaison between the operator. In short you are enabling a group of "friends" to go diving

Whether you charter the whole boat of are sharing, the boat is not delegating any of it's responsibilities to you. You make be the group leader, and be the liaison point between the group and the boat crew, but the crew will have the final say on the sites, carry out the briefing etc.

Underwater you are not a paid guide. You are an experienced buddy, for sure showing your buddy (s) around the site, perhaps giving additional dive information to your group pre splash, but you are not a paid guide. So in this scenario you are no different from an "instabuddy" (I mean no disrespect in that statement)

Of course what ever the qualification you have, in the event of an incident a family member can chase you. I've recently upgraded to DAN Pro, but even that doesn't have a great indemnity for students.

Be very careful in the way you portray your role, make it clear that you're organising everyone but not acting in a professional capacity. Some people get confused at the distinction and expect someone qualified as a DM to be their guardian angel at all times.

Good luck...