Do OEM's control who services equipment?

[SDAnderson]

The LDS could legitimately say they are only able to service regs originally purchased from authorized dealers.

This is not correct - check with Aqualung if you aren't sure. The original question was whether or not Aqualung prohibited authorized dealers from servicing second hand regulators (which is what regulators purchased from unauthorized dealers are) and the answer is no. Let me repeat: Aqualung dealers can work on any Aqualung regulator without regard for where it was purchased or who any of the prior owners were.

If anyone knows of a local dive shop that is authorized to work on Aqualung regulators and that is refusing to do so unless that regulator was purchased from them (or an authorized dealer), please double check with the shop to verify that there isn't a misunderstanding and then contact Aqualung - let them take care of the problem for you.

Servicing regulators is a profit center for dive shops - they want to do the work. Servicing out-of-warranty regulators is even more profitable because they get to charge you a markup on the parts. I'm not saying that no shop would have a policy prohibiting working on second hand regulators, but they would have to be incredibly dumb to pass up on a profit opportunity (AND make a customer mad) and Aqualung has no such policy.

 

[knotical]

Apparently I didn’t make myself clear. An authorized Aqualung dealer/service center should happily service most second-hand Aqualung regulators. They should refuse to do so for counterfeits and in certain other circumstances. At least that’s what our tech tells me.

 

[SDAnderson]

Apparently I didn’t make myself clear. An authorized Aqualung dealer/service center should happily service most second-hand Aqualung regulators. They should refuse to do so for counterfeits and in certain other circumstances. At least that’s what our tech tells me.

Fair point about the counterfeit regulators - though I could quibble that they aren't Aqualung regs. If I found one (and I never have), I certainly wouldn't work on it without first contacting the customer, Aqualung and probably the police.

Grey market regulators aren't counterfeit, however, they are simply used - the chain of ownership still starts with an authorized dealer. I'm an Aqualung Master Technician (ooooh, that sounds so butch, doesn't it?) and I work on them regularly. Otherwise, I wouldn't work on a regulator that I couldn't return to service in a safe and reliable condition or for which parts aren't available, but I can't think of any other circumstances.

 

[redacted]

The basic problem is that an LDS, like any other private business, does not have to provide you service. While it would be illegal for them the unlawfully discriminate against you (race, creed, color, gender...) if they simply don't like the way you parked, the color of your shirt, or the source of your regulator, they can deny you service. It's not very smart. It's probably bad business. But they can do it. unfortunately, with mfgr constrained copmpetition, they may do it somewhat successfully. Simple solution is to take your business elsewhere. If you would rather be less passive, you could probably punish the shop to one degree or another if your are willing to make the effort. I think it is most efficient to just find a good LDS.

 

[DrSteve]

Thanks for all the input guys. I posed the question in a neutral fashion and here's the low down and real life story which spawned it...

Last year my wife took her OW, AOW and MD course through this LDS. I took my Rescue course with them as well. I'm guessing we spent over 1000 on courses (and were even "made" to buy 2 nitrox course packs for the answer sheets - whatever!) We purchased most of her equipment from LeisurePro. We did give the LDS the chance to "bid" and at the time Aqualung was offering a 100 (?) discount on regs which combined with the promissed 10% discount from our club membership would have been a good deal. Except the LDS said it was 100 from the OEM or 10%. Guess where we went? Add to that who in their right mind would spend 850 on a Cobra which can be bought for 450 from LPro? Funnily enough the LDS made a big hoo haa over whether my wife's Zean Zeagle (a brand they had *never* heard of - makes me wonder how they stay in business, of course what they sell is always the best, same in any dive shop right?) was acceptable in a rescue class because of it's 34lb lift capacity.

Anyway, moving on a year I took her reg in and asked for it to be serviced. At no time did I expect free parts. The conversation went like this:
"I have to ask you this Steve, where did you purchase this from?"
"Well, it wasn't you."
"Where?"
"We purchased from LeisurePro"
"They aren't an authorised dealer. Aqualung requires us to match rebuild kits to regulator serial numbers to try and reduce internet sales. Also because they aren't authorised, half the time those dealers cannot get kits to do the rebuilds" (Amazing that all of a sudden she knew about LeisurePro, a company she had previously "never heard of" - just like Zeagle)
"OK fair enough, I'll have to send it back to LeisurePro then."

The other LDS's had no problems and although I feel a bit violated over the price they charged for a rebuild kit, I accept that. Needless to say, that LDS will no longer get any referrals from me (and I have sent several people there), nor any business of any kind. I have decided to make my choice with my feet.

The other question is grey market - defined as articles purchased outside of a certain sales area and imported into another e.g European models brought into the US. So what happens to an EU guy who comes to the US with his legitimately purchased regulator and finds that it is branded "grey market" and not covered by warranty. What about the person who buys second hand (but it was originally purchased from an authorised dealer) are they still entitled to free warranty service? Then the guy who buys used, but not purchased from an authorised outlet has no warranty. I wonder if Aqualung would comment on that - I think I'll ask them.

 

[redacted]

The other question is grey market - defined as articles purchased outside of a certain sales area and imported into another e.g European models brought into the US. So what happens to an EU guy who comes to the US with his legitimately purchased regulator and finds that it is branded "grey market" and not covered by warranty. What about the person who buys second hand (but it was originally purchased from an authorised dealer) are they still entitled to free warranty service? Then the guy who buys used, but not purchased from an authorised outlet has no warranty. I wonder if Aqualung would comment on that - I think I'll ask them.

Generally speaking, this "free parts" thing is not really part of any manufacturer's warrenty. Rather, it is a service agreement offered by a distributor. With Scubapro, it is only offered by Scubapro USA. So, if your 3 month old regulator develops a defective HP seat in the middle of your GBR dive vacation, you are probably going to have to pay for parts - as will the European owner or used reg owner in any US dive shop. Flatly denying service ism just stupid business. Scubapro does not have an MSRP on parts. So markup is pretty much up to you and the shop if you agree in advance or entirely up to the shop if you wait until after service is rendered.

 

[Hoosier]

You must know that this issue has been covered so many times. Some members here such as, DMs, instructors, or loyal customers, who are on LDS’s payroll or get the equivalent discount argue that you have to buy everything to sustain the air refill source. But, in reality, it is so funny because they didn’t mention how much they used to get the discount. For example, if they get 20% (it is a common rate) discount for all their purchases, do you believe that LDS does the same thing to the normal customers? Someone who is not on their payroll can argue they also get the same 20%. Oh~~yeah, if then, how much have you spent over there, $3K, 4K, or 5K. And then, you get 20% off? If then, eveyone has to spend that much money to ensure the same treatment. My point is that it is not a fair comparison between the normal customers including myself and other loyal LDS pets.

I think it is a transition period of the scuba market. As you may know, there are many places (including LDS in other places) to do the annual service by mail no matter where you bought. They do the same service or even better in the reasonable price range. Of course, you have to pay the part if the reg. doesn’t come with the warranty, but it is not a rip off price. And, you don’t need to feel the guilty and study their face. I don’t think it is the charitable business that LDS does the annual service. They are doing what you pay for. If your LDS doesn’t want to make money, just walk away from them.

Regarding the manufactures’ warranty, they used to claim their warranty is an international warranty. But, it is mostly a gimmick. There is no guarantee that the authorized dealer anywhere in the world honors the warranty. And, don’t be confused the warranty and annual service. The annual service is not the warranty coverage so that the cost of the annual service is case by case. For example, ScubaPro free part is only valid in U.S. I have already verified this with ScubaPro so many times. Some LDSs in other countries asks $160 (reg from authorized dealer) for SP annual service. And, any LDSs in U.S. have a right to refuse the annual service even though you bought the reg. from the authorized dealers. I told you, there is no guarantee! Yeah, they only do the service on what they sold. So, you have a right to walk away from that kind of LDS and not to refer anyone to them.

Some members also contend how you can send your life supporting reg to unknown technician. If then, how long have you known your LDS? How much have you known your LDS technician? Do you actually see their service on your reg.? Some members might see it, but don't get me wrong. It is not a drive through service in BurgerKins. Most divers leave the reg. and get it back later. If some members are really concerned about the service accuracy and quality, they had better service it by themselves. Who can you believe except yourself! Moreover, the service places (such as Air-Tech, Scubatoys, or TDL, etc….) that I referred do three times or ten times more annual service than your tiny local LDS. They are also LDS, not aliens or foreigners.

Don’t worry about air source, it is a supply and demand rule. If there is enough market out there, there are always suppliers. That is the reason why many local dive sites equip the air station.

My 2 cents.

 

[lamont]

really, i wish that leisurepro would just run all these idiots out of business. if they can't find a buisiness model which can survive cheap internet sales and competition from used equipment they need to go bankrupt. let the LDSes who can come up with a viable business model that doesn't involve restraint of trade survive... evolve or die...

 

[SDAnderson]

really, i wish that leisurepro would just run all these idiots out of business.

They are...and if they aren't, they should. In the meantime, I hope that DrSteve does everyone a favor and gives Aqualung an earful about his experience. Complaining here has the benefit of being cathartic but talking to the manufacturer might actually result in change.

 

[DrSteve]

They are...and if they aren't, they should. In the meantime, I hope that DrSteve does everyone a favor and gives Aqualung an earful about his experience. Complaining here has the benefit of being cathartic but talking to the manufacturer might actually result in change.

Do you really think it would make a difference? I've still bought their product. If the OEM goes and gives the LDS an earfull it will point right back to me. While I personally don't care (but I've not named the LDS) the diving community has a very good grapevine and I don't want my name sullied by her.