Do you actually see people diving with pony bottles?

[MXGratefulDiver]

The youll know what the next question is...why?
off topic but.. I heard of a team of GUE dives that was exploring a wreck that im very familiar with recently not sure if its GUE or this particular group but they dont use lines for penetrations. One ccr diver got lost inside the wreck and spent 3 hours trying to find his way out - he shot an smb out of a small port hole and a buddy noticed he was overdue and went to see what the problem was ( yes he was solo after being seperated) - the diver was on his bailout and fortunately the second diver was able to smash a window and pass some more gas to him while others went in to rescus him...
and heres the punch line...
he still thinks you shouldnt have to use a line, that progressive penetration is the only safe way

That's not GUE ... sounds more like the sort of diving John Chatterton does.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Lorenzoid]

@Diver-Drex , we also plan for no more than a single major event, and I would count buddy separation AND catastrophic gas loss as two concurrent major events. Entanglement might also count as a major event. In the event of buddy separation, we would do what I believe pretty much every OW diver is trained to do: look around for a minute, and if the buddy is not found then ascend to the surface.

I have been practicing valve drills for the better part of a year now--I count about 80 valve drills in my training log--but I have not reached a level of performance that satisfies my instructor I can do it consistently with the required precision, so I am not yet at the "tech pass" level required for me to progress to being trained to resolve failures in the manner that tech diving--where you can't just ascend to the surface--demands. In the meantime, I'm supposed to handle failures in the manner taught to rec divers. Injecting a pony tank into my system, where my muscle memory is ingrained to do something else, doesn't seem like a good idea. I can read in the GUE SOP manual how to resolve reg/manifold failures--and I have--but I think it's better to wait to be trained (in Tech 1 or Cave 1) than to potentially ingrain bad habits by practicing on my own based on what I have read. That is good advice I received when I was looking at taking Fundies, and I believe the advice holds true for further training.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Whilst I may have issues with some aspects of GUE. This really doesn't sound like GUE. They are fanatical about the use of lines, coming from the cave diving environment.
GUE have many positives, the focus on excellent buoyancy control, and good diving skills, etc. Progressive penetration, would be a no, no in a GUE team.

... as would the solo diving ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ermaclob]

All i have to say for this thread is redundancy FTW, pony bottles doubles what have you.

 

[gcarter]

This really is a non argument. If you don’t like the rules of a dive boat or captain, don’t use them. There is a popular dive op in warm tropical waters that requires all divers to ascent as a group. I don’t like this so I I don’t dive their op.

As to requiring redundancy in NJ. We all know that even the best buddy pairs can fail. It just takes a moment of inattention, even less in poor viz or high current. We have seen the proof here on SB. I can’t fault a boat that requires another form of redundancy beyond buddies when the local dive conditions warrant it.

I am happy making my own decisions WRT my buddy and my required redundancy, on a cold, deep, low viz high current dive. I want a taxi to the dive site, not a nanny. So I would not / will not use an op that requires this as a matter of policy on all of its dives.

I do not see NJ diving in my future, but I am OK with that.

 

[Cowfish Aesthetic]

I want a taxi to the dive site, not a nanny.

If your decisions affected only yourself, I would agree, but they don't. A missing or dead diver affects everyone on the boat, and can have massive implications for the captain and boat operator. Thus the "my boat, my rules" mentality that is pervasive everywhere, not just NJ.

 

[boulderjohn]

I want a taxi to the dive site, not a nanny.

Thus the "my boat, my rules" mentality that is pervasive everywhere, not just NJ.

We have many threads on this topic, and people tend to forget that a boat operator cannot just make up all rules and policies. Boat policies must conform to local laws, Coast Guard rules, insurance requirements, etc. These can vary quite a bit from location to location. Just as an example, if you are diving in the Cozumel marine park, you must follow a divemaster. In other places, a boat operator would not dream of putting a DM in the water.

 

[Kharon]

What is wrong with having more safety? I'm all for thinking way beyond what I can imagine happening and planning for that.

 

[Coztick]

Self rescue, enabled by redundancy, can be immediate regardless of situation or conditions. This allows me to breathe easy and relax...
For me it's two cylinders every time.

 

[gcarter]

If your decisions affected only yourself, I would agree, but they don't. A missing or dead diver affects everyone on the boat, and can have massive implications for the captain and boat operator. Thus the "my boat, my rules" mentality that is pervasive everywhere, not just NJ.

Not arguing that. Just saying that such rules don't suit me, so I won't use those boats.

I dive safely, within reasonable limits, utilizing well and widely accepted safety practices for the type of diving I do. I do not change my gear or my approach to suit a boat captain. If their rules don't fit my equipment, training, and comfort, I will not use them.