Don't Share Your Air

[lowwall]

Remember! We were told NOT to wear masks by our Covid Task force leaders. they are detrimental and can actually cause more problems than they solve.

Now they do a 180 and claim that they are essential. It is a ridiculous situation.

Man this tedious. Masks were super important, they remain important and they will continue to be important. The point is that people were being fed utter BS and we should not be so surprised when the consequence of this is that they lose trust in the entity delivering the information.

The failure of people to understand and accept science is dangerous to our democracy. If they used common sense, they would have IMMEDIATELY recognized that individual's using masks was a good idea. I acquired a few boxes of N-95 in February - when I saw the writing on the wall.

Got it. You don't actually have a point. You just want to complain about something that happened 4 months ago. Or are you really suggesting that (your perception of) shortcomings in the CDC's initial guidance on mask wearing is somehow responsible for politicians in certain states and individuals everywhere ignoring current guidance - which is based on far greater experience and data?

 

[tech_diver]

LOL, there is no new science at play here. They even admitted that.

They were willing to lie to the public, in order to reduce demand for masks because it was determined more desirable for the medical staff to have access to PPE. There is no wonder that people are skeptical, after we are told one story- then the opposite. They were willing to lie and sacrifice individuals, for the perceived benefit of the collective. Public health and personal health are not always aligned.

Telling people not to use masks or face coverings was obviously ridiculous when it occurred. I'm surprised that the poor guidance is not recognized by more people.

Who is 'They'?

Liberals? Conservatives? Politicans? Fox News? CNN? CDC?

 

[johndiver999]

Who is 'They'?

Liberals? Conservatives? Politicans? Fox News? CNN? CDC?

Did you read the links I provided?

Today's news.. (from CNN). LOL..

Mississippi lawmakers get coronavirus after refusing to wear masks - CNN

 

[CuzzA]

They lied, end of story. They admitted they lied. Now people are lying to themselves. Good grief. The Asians knew to were masks, a percentage of Americans knew to wear masks, that's why they bought them, everyone in the pub said to wear masks. Where have you guys been?

 

[BoundForElsewhere]

They lied, end of story. They admitted they lied. Now people are lying to themselves. Good grief. The Asians knew to were masks, a percentage of Americans knew to wear masks, that's why they bought them, everyone in the pub said to wear masks. Where have you guys been?

Apparently Florida and Texas.

And California, to be fair.

 

[chillyinCanada]

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[johndiver999]

 

[RyanT]

Some other folks have already nailed it in this thread, regarding scientists being comfortable with change in the face of new evidence. Here's an example I like to use.... Remember when we were told that we should eat an ultra low-fat diet because fats cause cardiovascular disease? Then we were told that margarine (e.g. partially hydrogenated oil) was a much healthier substitute. Then, come to find out, margarine is substantially worse for you than virtually any other fat you can eat. Then we figured out that saturated fats were the most important culprit and that some unsaturated fats actually have some heart protective benefits. Interestingly, I never hear anyone say that they refuse to take their doctor's dietary advice because the doctors lied to us in the past.

 

[kelemvor]

Some other folks have already nailed it in this thread, regarding scientists being comfortable with change in the face of new evidence. Here's an example I like to use.... Remember when we were told that we should eat an ultra low-fat diet because fats cause cardiovascular disease? Then we were told that margarine (e.g. partially hydrogenated oil) was a much healthier substitute. Then, come to find out, margarine is substantially worse for you than virtually any other fat you can eat. Then we figured out that saturated fats were the most important culprit and that some unsaturated fats actually have some heart protective benefits. Interestingly, I never hear anyone say that they refuse to take their doctor's dietary advice because the doctors lied to us in the past.

There's a big difference though. In the health case, the about face was due to new science being done. In the case of some of the covid-related scandals, it's purely political or possibly social. Just because someone is a professional scientist does not mean they aren't someone who might run around spouting the latest news/rumor/whatever as gospel.

What comes to mind is the hand sanitizer debacle when this mess first started. It was only a week or two before you couldn't buy the stuff at any price. So Benzalkonium sanitizers started to show up. Our governor went on tv talking it up.. that's what he used for his family etc. Immediately afterwards, scientists and news scum were talking the governor down because the CDC only recommended alcohol based sanitizers. It was irresponsible, etc. They put up web pages on the subject (both news scum and CDC). Well it turned out the science they had based their opinion on was an old study done in 1974 and the only thing they tested was alcohol so...predictable result. Once that started to get out, scientists and news scum changed their tune. No new science was done.

 

[kmarks]

Interestingly, I never hear anyone say that they refuse to take their doctor's dietary advice because the doctors lied to us in the past.

People say that all the time. Or least that they won't listen to dietitians because the advice changes with the wind.

But nutritional recommendations are actually not a great analog and somewhat insidious because of lobbying. Why did we all hear so much about how terrible fats were for so long? Because of the sugar industry needed to create enough noise to keep themselves out from under the microscope when independent scientists were beginning to realize the dangers of refined sugar. Too many actually reputable studies were finding that fat doesn't make you fat, calories make you fat, and the processed food makers were making a fortune selling people cheap, oversweetened, highly caloric, intentionally addictive foods to lose that cash cow. So what did they do? They blamed fat, created the reduced fat products we all know and hate, and just replaced the fat with more sugar and salt, which really just makes them worse.

I am a scientist and we have to follow the data. It can be kind of weird because sometimes it might look like the data is saying one thing, but then it turns out it wasn't the case. With something like a novel zoonotic virus, we really are starting from near zero knowledge and learning as we go. There has been some question about what this virus actually attacks. It seems like it is a pulmonary virus, but with things like COVID toes and the long term damage to the heart and other organs, some researchers think it might actually be affecting the vascular system. In science especially, changing your mind is not "flip-flopping" or a sign of weakness. It's a sign of learning and strength. Somebody mentioned above that we used to "cure" illness by bloodletting. That was outrageously stupid, but it was what people thought was the best practice at the time. Now we have antibiotics and other medications that actually work.