Double short hose regulator configuration (for non-wreck / non-cave environments)

[Remy B.]

A sidemount diver is trained to be weighted properly so he can donate a bottle, without a problem of buoyancy.

 

[tbone1004]

interestingly enough, extreme restriction cave diving is one of the places where two short hoses is used.

donating cylinders is imho completely idiotic and impractical with anything but AL80's. With 80's it doesn't matter, but it implies that everyone has identical tank rigging and regs. What you get in sidemount is fully independent gas supplies which means you should never have to share gas.

If doing recreational diving, I'd still put at least a 40" hose on one of them for air sharing with backmount guys, but no reason for a full long hose. I dive Poseidons so I have easier hose routing than most since I don't have directional regulators. With a left handed regulator you could have both sides as mirror images of each other which is preferable to having the regs come straight up to your mouth

 

[Colliam7]

A sidemount diver is trained to be weighted properly so he can donate a bottle, without a problem of buoyancy.

I do appreciate the point. I have my SM students doff and don a cylinder, and do some swimming in between, to make that very point. It works very well with AL80s, as Tom noted, above. But, when I have them wearing HP120s, even HP100s, it is just a wee bit more challenging.

The bottom line for me: if I am tasked with assisting an OOA diver, I do not want to have my control of either a) my buoyancy and trim or b) the situation, compromised. So, I would prefer to donate air, rather than a cylinder.

Now, I also appreciate the OP's statement that he is unlikely to dive with others who carelessly allow themselves to go OOA, and if he is with a diver who goes OOA through equipment malfunction, he is easily able to assist that diver to the surface, by donating a short hose from one of his cylinders.

 

[KenGordon]

Please note: Following is under consideration of non-wreck, cave or (extreme) technical diving.

Being someone always trying to optimize my equipment in terms of light travelling (and clutter free diving), I would like to challenge the ‘real’ need to have a long hose configuration for the right tank instead of using a short hose setup (with break-away bolt-snaps connected to necklace) for both tanks (referring to Steve Martin’s short-hose configuration for solo diving; see screenshots).

Before you shoot why this might be ‘craziest idea ever’, please consider following for OOA situations:

• Generally, OOA is only acceptable due to technical failure (in fact, OOA caused by lack of air monitoring is completely unacceptable (->terrible diver) and I would never dive with such divers)
• Air sharing is possible with short hose configuration (although having an impact on comfort due to distance)
• Air sharing results into team ascend anyway, hence, impact on comfort is limited to TTS.
• OOA being such a rare occasion, does above discomfort (due to distance during ascent) really matter? I doubt!

Please do not argue “what is the point?” – some divers are in favor of light travelling / minimal configuration, while others don’t mind bringing tons of equipment (and some of them looking like a ‘Christmas Tree’ ).

Curious about your opinions and a healthy discussion.

Cheers,
Dan

What you propose is quite common here for people who have not been indoctrinated in the way of DIR etc.

Either you are doing no stop dives, in which case your configuration is like 99% of divers, or you are doing deco dives and your buddy ought to be reasonably self reliant.

On the other hand a hog looped long hose isn't such a hassle really? What happens for return to shot dives?

 

[Remy B.]

I have practice with AL-80 and 12L & 7L carbons without buoyancy problems, normally with Dry-suit

IMO even if you use HP120 or 100, if you take your time to get your weight right, even with steel tanks, you shall not have a problem to donate or un-clip a bottle for penetration, sorry but I disagree with Tbone and you Colliam, it seems that there are some flaws in your comments or I didn't understand them right.

If one reads your comments one can assume then that you guys are unable to dive without AL-80 for cave and wreck penetration, where you may need to un-clip one or more bottles.

We agree that it is not necessary to donate your tank, at the moment of a OOA or regulator problem it is time to ascent anyway and aboard the dive with a long or short hose.

 

[Patoux01]

I have practice with AL-80 and 12L & 7L carbons without buoyancy problems, normally with Dry-suit

Yes, these are all neutral tanks.
If you do that with a tank that is 4kg negative empty and can "unclip it no problem", you're either heavily overweighted, or you just haven't noticed it yet.


As for 2 short hoses, not in this configuration... They're crossing behind the neck, so you have to think about which one you're gonna give or it might cause trouble (if you try and give the one that has its hose under the other one, that's a good source of issues). One can make it work though.

 

[Colliam7]

I have practice with AL-80 and 12L & 7L carbons without buoyancy problems,

Yes, and as we noted, AL80s are not an issue. I don't use carbons, so I can't comment.

If you want to donate a cylinder, that's fine. I don't care to in general, although I have done it with an 80.

If one reads your comments one can assume then that you guys are unable to dive without AL-80 for cave and wreck penetration, where you may need to un-clip one or more bottles.

No, not at all what I said. And, I don't think that's what Tom said.

We agree that it is not necessary to donate your tank, at the moment of a OOA or regulator problem it is time to ascent anyway and aboard the dive with a long or short hose.

Yes.

In point of fact, the focus of discussion in this thread is whether SM diving with two short hoses is a realistic approach - not how to handle an OOA situation when diving SM - and I think we are all saying it is realistic, whether or not we individually prefer that approach. I am saying it is not my preference.

 

[Colliam7]

What you propose is quite common here for people who have not been indoctrinated in the way of DIR etc.

Really good point!!

I came to SM from BM manifolded doubles. And, I adopted the long hose (right cylinder), bungeed necklace (left cylinder) simply because that was 'the way I had always done it'. It doesn't make quite the same sense in the case of independent doubles, although it works because it is what I (and, I am sure, many others) have become used to. Over the years, I started a couple of threads asking what others were doing, just out of curiosity, and found that the majority of SM SB users who responded were doing the same thing. And, I have experimented with double 5' hoses, double 7' hoses, etc., and ultimately returned to safe have - what I learned to begin with.

A SM diver who doesn't start with that background might well take another approach to configuration.

 

[DanSEA]

A sidemount diver is trained to be weighted properly so he can donate a bottle, without a problem of buoyancy.

Fully agree. On some dives I dive even monkey (without having any buoncy issues) - I can counter easily with my hip

 

[DanSEA]

Thank you all for the comments. As initially stated, there are different preferences - hence I really appreciate all the comments!

I should have added that in APAC, I only dive AL80 (or occoasionally AL40).
Guess I will give it a try and report back how I like it. Another learning from this discussion: Air sharing shall always be practised - particulary with short hose configuration.