DumpsterDiver emergency ascent from 180'

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And there was no fix to the leading edge that could have been done and no way to get the shuttle home without it burning up... They were dead 30 seconds after lift-off... They just didn't know it...

Jim...
No, there were several possibilities. NASA management never asked. It was barely possible to launch Atlantis in time, but you need a plan B. Plan B was you fill the hole with every piece of metallic junk on the shuttle and use ice to restrain it, then you bail out as soon as that becomes survivable. It was estimated that had about a 50 percent chance of keeping the wing on for extra hundred seconds or so needed when combined with trajectory modifications.
 
And doesn't mind posting the problems that occur.

Or doesn't have a good filter to judge what should probably not be posted up for others that might see this as a best practice. whether you like or not, when you self identify yourself as an experienced or advanced diver, others are watching and taking notes. Good or bad

I recognize most of us probably have moments we are glad to not have posted up on YouTube for public scrutiny. Even a DD apologist on this thread said something like "he doesn't let his kid dive this way".. I have 4 grown kids, and I have had. "But I saw you do it" thrown in my face more times than I can remember.

So if DD reads this, I apologize for the harsh treatment, but I stand by my position on the relative safety of the bail-out plan and gear.

I'm surprised we haven't seen the dead horse emoji yet
 
Well, I for one am glad that this video was posted, as I think it is instructional, and had led to some very good discussion, about:

1. Pony bottle size (the stated reason that it was first linked in this SB thread);
2. Dive planning
3. Incident analysis
4. Diver behavior
5. Response to an emergent situation

Probably, other issues could be identified.

As several have said, we seldom have video summaries of these kind of events, and this has been enlightening. I have learned quite a bit from the discussions.

I may differ with DD and /or others on at least some specific points related to these issues. But, I appreciate the fact that 2airishuman posted the link and started this thread. Each of us will hopefully take away various thoughts, form opinions, and ideally grow as divers as a result. I don't have to agree with someone to learn from their views. And, maybe I can learn something that helps me adjust my own views.
 
dD's dive was well beyond recreational limits. Choice of redundancy follows.

I mostly dive solo within recreational limits. My choice of a 19 cf pony is based on spending a minute at depth and making a normal ascent with a safety stop from my deepest dive.

I'm glad dD made an uneventful ascent, hope I could do the same under similar circumstances.
 
No, there were several possibilities. NASA management never asked. It was barely possible to launch Atlantis in time, but you need a plan B. Plan B was you fill the hole with every piece of metallic junk on the shuttle and use ice to restrain it, then you bail out as soon as that becomes survivable. It was estimated that had about a 50 percent chance of keeping the wing on for extra hundred seconds or so needed when combined with trajectory modifications.

Like I said... They were dead... Now some holy grail if everything works right we "MAY" be able to save them super hero deal.. I just don't see it... Flying is risky , Flying rockets is very risky... If you look at the pre shuttle risk outlook.. We lost just what they thought we would...

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20100005659.pdf

For those that don't like reading papers that are really dry... LOL

The mean calculated risk of LOCV during a nominal mission for Iteration 3.1 is 1.2E-02 per mission or 1 in 85 missions with uncertainties of 1 in 59 and 1 in 123 per mission, representing the 95th and 5th percentiles respectively. The actual loss of 2 vehicles over the first 129 Shuttle missions produces a probability of 1 in 65, which is consistent with the calculated results.

Jim...
 
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WTH, Apparently everyone in here is a pilot except me... :confused:

I only learned to fly because my sky diver drivers would not show up... I owned the plane for 2 years before I told the wife... I guess I need to get my Ticket... Really never "LOVED" FLYING BUT HAD A LOT OF FUN FLYING JUMPERS AT MAX GROSS OFF A 1300' GRASS STRIP... :wink:

And it's not weird that type "A" people , Skydive - Scuba dive and Fly... Very few are one trick pony's...

Jim....
 
Everyone brings their bias to this type of threads.. it is just human. The thing is that now the person from Nebraska (or any other landlocked place) that had to learn to swim in his 30's because wanted to be a scuba diver is communicating with another person from a coastal area that most likely learned to swim before learning to walk.
There's just no comparison to their perspectives. You had and have kids using farm equipment as soon as they could get to the pedals up there right?. Kids that live in cities that only know the city ways. Well there are kids here in the coastal area that pretty much live IN the water; snorkeling, jumping off bridges, free diving, fishing, surfing, kayaking, boating and doing whatever is possible to do in the water. Even here there's a difference between the kids that live right on the water and the ones 15 minutes away.

These kids each grow up and have their very different outlook of the world. Many years ago these people wouldn't mix or even know about each other, much less see videos of what they did last weekend .

Now you have divers coming from all these groups looking for the BEST way to dive. But their definition of best is not the same, for some it has to be the safest possible way, for others the fastest, or the most dives, or whatever. For sure the most hated and controversial way is the one that follows the mantra "This way works for me" Specially if the one following that philosophy insist in showing everyone that it does work for them just fine.

When the time comes for DD to pass, there will be people that insist it was his cavalier attitude and lack of good practices, specially if it happens while diving... instead of thinking that putting that much time underwater the odds of happening there were very high.

Being married across such a "chasm" (water-wise, culturally, language, you name it - I love the the way you presented this perspective - and the fact that many, most really, really struggle putting themselves in the other's place some knowingly so, others not and the interesting albeit at times frustrating dynamics that show up in the mix of it all.

Implicit to all that of course is that organisations that try to standardize everything - eg. training / schooling / product design process / marketing strategy/ ... / whatnot......, also might find that that in part is not necessarily always the best approach, although it may be necessary to be practical if you are an organisation and not a "freelancer".that can easily customize to individuals or small groups...
 
Everyone brings their bias to this type of threads.. it is just human. The thing is that now the person from Nebraska (or any other landlocked place) that had to learn to swim in his 30's because wanted to be a scuba diver is communicating with another person from a coastal area that most likely learned to swim before learning to walk.
There's just no comparison to their perspectives. You had and have kids using farm equipment as soon as they could get to the pedals up there right?. Kids that live in cities that only know the city ways. Well there are kids here in the coastal area that pretty much live IN the water; snorkeling, jumping off bridges, free diving, fishing, surfing, kayaking, boating and doing whatever is possible to do in the water. Even here there's a difference between the kids that live right on the water and the ones 15 minutes away.

These kids each grow up and have their very different outlook of the world. Many years ago these people wouldn't mix or even know about each other, much less see videos of what they did last weekend .

Now you have divers coming from all these groups looking for the BEST way to dive. But their definition of best is not the same, for some it has to be the safest possible way, for others the fastest, or the most dives, or whatever. For sure the most hated and controversial way is the one that follows the mantra "This way works for me" Specially if the one following that philosophy insist in showing everyone that it does work for them just fine.

When the time comes for DD to pass, there will be people that insist it was his cavalier attitude and lack of good practices, specially if it happens while diving... instead of thinking that putting that much time underwater the odds of happening there were very high.

Thank you for this thoughtful reminder. I will be carrying it with me in the future online.

Respectfully,
Cameron
 
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