Warhammer
Guest
Trying to find out your personal "depth" limit is a killer though.
Enough Instruction???
- Thread starter Pinecrest Jim
- Start date
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Trying to find out your personal "depth" limit is a killer though.
The depth limit is the bottom of the pool.
WWW
WWW
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Hey Jim and all,
I am also a "self learner" as you put it. I will devour the manuals and videos several times THEN take the class. It has resulted in my understanding the theory end better than a few of my instructors, which is not a bad thing. HOWEVER, I have always had to demonstrate every skill, and was always shown the skill before they let me proceed. My PADI OW Instructor (as well as others I have been a DM for) use a PADI OW Skills Underwater Slate to keep up with what has been done and needs to be done. It is sequential and builds one skill on the other. In my mind it should NEVER be deviated from.
I must concur with Warhammer and the others that you should notify PADI of this instructor's "oversight". You are probably not the only one he has short changed, and someone WILL DIE sooner or later if these skills are not mastered by all of his students. I don't believe that he will lose his c-card for being an instructor with only one complaint. Still it would be a life saving wake up call for him to receive a formal complaint from PADI and if this isn't his first complaint, then maybe he should lose his c-card!
As for you, I would do as others have suggested and take a refresher course from another shop and have them show you first and then you demonstrate each of those Closed Water skills you itemized. You owe that to yourself and all of your subsequent dive buddies and Dive Masters. When I see your c-card, I expect you to have had the minimum training required for that card. No less.
And please, just because someone is incompetent in being an instructor, don't just label him as a "Dive Master" gone nutso. I have enough emotional issues to deal with as it is (grin). Most of us Dive Masters take pride in doing the best job we were trained for, and we expect at least a modicum of respect from you God-like instructors (tongue placed FIRMLY in left cheek). Hey, who else will help you with that training class for free???
I am also a "self learner" as you put it. I will devour the manuals and videos several times THEN take the class. It has resulted in my understanding the theory end better than a few of my instructors, which is not a bad thing. HOWEVER, I have always had to demonstrate every skill, and was always shown the skill before they let me proceed. My PADI OW Instructor (as well as others I have been a DM for) use a PADI OW Skills Underwater Slate to keep up with what has been done and needs to be done. It is sequential and builds one skill on the other. In my mind it should NEVER be deviated from.
I must concur with Warhammer and the others that you should notify PADI of this instructor's "oversight". You are probably not the only one he has short changed, and someone WILL DIE sooner or later if these skills are not mastered by all of his students. I don't believe that he will lose his c-card for being an instructor with only one complaint. Still it would be a life saving wake up call for him to receive a formal complaint from PADI and if this isn't his first complaint, then maybe he should lose his c-card!
As for you, I would do as others have suggested and take a refresher course from another shop and have them show you first and then you demonstrate each of those Closed Water skills you itemized. You owe that to yourself and all of your subsequent dive buddies and Dive Masters. When I see your c-card, I expect you to have had the minimum training required for that card. No less.
And please, just because someone is incompetent in being an instructor, don't just label him as a "Dive Master" gone nutso. I have enough emotional issues to deal with as it is (grin). Most of us Dive Masters take pride in doing the best job we were trained for, and we expect at least a modicum of respect from you God-like instructors (tongue placed FIRMLY in left cheek). Hey, who else will help you with that training class for free???
that Pinecrest Jim recieved the resort course training instead of the full OW course?
jobowker
Guest
When I took my PADI OW, we met for eight weeks - an hour or two of theory follwed by a pool session. It was a good size class (11 students) and even with two instructors it took a long time to get through all of the exercises. A couple of student had trouble with the mask clearing (including myself) and he took us aside and made us do it a few times until we had it right. On the last pool session, he remembered who had had difficulty in mask clearing and made us all do it again. I hated it, but I understand why he did it. He made sure we did everything, because the people that have difficulty with any one skill won't stand up and say "I need some more practice on this". I would gladly take another course with him. My main dive buddy took a shorter course (still PADI OW, but at that LDS they have the students read the book and take all the quizzes before the first class) and all four dives are done in a single weekend. It just seemed like they were more rushed, and I noticed that she (my dive buddy) didn't seem as well prepared. It's true that we learned some skills without knowing it (underwater dodgeball develops good buoyancy skills - hit the surface or the bottom and you're out) but or most of the stuff he announced what skill we were going to do, then did it himself, and then had each of us do it. Presenting everything in an organized manner made him less likely to miss anything. Some people pick up some stuff better than others. I had trouble at first with mask clearing, but picked up the theory far easier than most in my class. You may have been a perfect student, but I fear that any slower learners may not be up to the standards necessary for safe diving. Let's say I had taken that reader's digest condensed version. I probably wouldn't have got the mask clearing right, and would be diving today with a very strong aversion to removing my mask. Later, while seraching for lobsters, my dive buddy knocks my mask with her fin (this has happened to me). Would I be able to replace and clear it, or panic and rocket to the surface? As an instructor, you basically decide whether or not someone has completed all the basic skills needed to go dive in a relative margin of safety. If the instructor lets people through without requiring all of the necessary skills, the slower students (I'm putting myself in this category) may be missing vital skills. That said, I can understand reluctance to blow the whistle on the guy, but I still feel that you should find some diplomatic way to inform PADI, whether it be anonymously or not. Just say your neighbor is a friend of yours, but you know that every Saturday night he drives ome from the bar totally drunk. But it's close and you are never on that road at that time. Do you report him to the police? What if he ends up killing someone? The instructor I had for my last OW dives told me he keeps the records for 7 years. When I asked about it, he said that every student he taught out there is a liability. If anything happends to any one of them, his actions will be scrutinized.
luvdiving
Contributor
Jim
I agree that you got short-changed. You really need to contact PADI (PADI.com) and report this problem. You may feel comfortable in the water, but what about the others in your class? What about this instructors future students? If you're not part of the solution, then...
Thanks, Ken
I agree that you got short-changed. You really need to contact PADI (PADI.com) and report this problem. You may feel comfortable in the water, but what about the others in your class? What about this instructors future students? If you're not part of the solution, then...
Thanks, Ken
scubakat
Senior Member
My PADI friends sometimes get the creeps when I tell them about the skills I had to do in the pool... and If I'd been given a list of the required skills ahead of time I never would have finished the course, but to complete them step-by-step in real-time with instructors it was (mostly) a piece of cake.
Walter... are you an LA County instructor? Last weekend I dove with a rescue certified diver who went through that program, she said it was Awesome, but BRUTAL!
-kate
Kate,
I live on the wrong side of the continent to be an LA County Instructor. From everything I've learned about the program, I believe it might just be the best program anywhere. About 12 years ago I met an LA County instructor at a YMCA SCUBA Convention, he told me at that time all LA County instructors were also YMCA instructors. I'd love to make a trip to California to study the program.
One of my dive buddies is a former instructor for both LA County and YMCA. He tells me LA County has a three month long advanced course that we could all benefit from.
If I make the trek west to check out LA County, will you travel south to dive with me?
WWW
I live on the wrong side of the continent to be an LA County Instructor. From everything I've learned about the program, I believe it might just be the best program anywhere. About 12 years ago I met an LA County instructor at a YMCA SCUBA Convention, he told me at that time all LA County instructors were also YMCA instructors. I'd love to make a trip to California to study the program.
One of my dive buddies is a former instructor for both LA County and YMCA. He tells me LA County has a three month long advanced course that we could all benefit from.
If I make the trek west to check out LA County, will you travel south to dive with me?
WWW
FinMeister
Guest
A point of information. For those of us certified back in the mid 70s, the doffing-free ascenet/freedive-donning exercise was a requirement for PADI. We had to do it first as a pool exercise, and then in open water. Later, when I cross certified to NAUI and YMCA it was a requirent, also. I believe it may have been part of the NASDS certification as well.
Warren
Warren
Warren,
It was shortly after this (in the late '70's) that skills began to be removed from some programs. It was not a sudden change, but a gradual one. If you compare requirements from year to year, you'll notice small changes. If you compare today's requirements with those of 25 years ago, you'll see major changes. Last year at least one agency made swimming optional. Not a good trend, IMHO, and I wonder will it ever stop?
WWW
It was shortly after this (in the late '70's) that skills began to be removed from some programs. It was not a sudden change, but a gradual one. If you compare requirements from year to year, you'll notice small changes. If you compare today's requirements with those of 25 years ago, you'll see major changes. Last year at least one agency made swimming optional. Not a good trend, IMHO, and I wonder will it ever stop?
WWW
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