Equalizing ears but air leaks from around the eyes

[ganu76]

I am considering letting my daughter get certified so that she and I could dive together, but I have a question about her ears and sinuses.

Whenever she pinches her nose to blow and pop her ears, air leaks out from the corners of her eyes. (Not that uncommon really. I know a couple of other non-divers who can do this. In order to pop her ears she has to pinch the inside corners of her eyes while also pinching her nose. Obviously she could not do this with a mask on in the water.

Anyone else know of a diver who has the same issue? I would guess that, if need be, you just slow your ascent and decent.

Then again for all I know it may not even BE an issue.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Phil_C]

Hi Ganu - I would suggest this isn't something to worry about too much as there is a physiological reason for it -the intranasal space communicates with a series of neighbouring air-filled cavities within the skull (the paranasal sinuses) and also, via the nasolacrimal duct, with the lacrimal apparatus (tearducts) in the corner of the eye. The duct drains the lacrimal fluid into the nasal cavity. So there is a connection between the tear ducts and the nasal pasages which in normal operation drains excess lacrimal fluid into the nasal passages. All that is in effect happening is that the air is being forced the other way from the nasal passages into the tear duct.

I have seen people who can expel smoke from cigarettes this way. I would suggest that the most effective response would be either try being more gentle about equalising (it isn't supposed to be forceful, but slow steady pressure) or try one of the other methods of equalising such as the yawning/jaw wiggling method which can be done and still retain the regulator in the mouth.

P

 

[ajduplessis]

First for me I must admit. I am sure some of the medical staff will add more value. Pinching your nose is not the only method to equalising. Here are some of the other methods I listed below. Your local instructor would also be able to give better guidance.

VALSALVA MANEUVER: This one you already know, but some more info anyway. This is the method most divers learn. Pinch your nose and gently blow through your nose. The resulting overpressure in your throat usually forces air up your Eustachian tubes. But the Valsalva maneuver has three problems: It does not activate muscles which open the Eustachian tubes, so it may not work if the tubes are already locked by a pressure differential. It’s all too easy to blow hard enough to damage something.


TOYNBEE MANEUVER: With your nose pinched, swallow. Swallowing pulls open your Eustachian tubes while the movement of your tongue, with your nose closed, compresses air against them. This one I know works, but not for everyone.


EDMONDS TECHNIQUE: While tensing the soft palate (the soft tissue at the back of the roof of your mouth) and throat muscles and pushing the jaw forward and down, do a Valsalva maneuver.


FRENZEL MANEUVER: Pinch your nose and close the back of your throat as if straining to lift a weight. Then make the sound of the letter "K." This forces the back of your tongue upward, compressing air against the openings of your Eustachian tubes.


VOLUNTARY TUBAL OPENING: Tense the muscles of the soft palate and the throat while pushing the jaw forward and down as if starting to yawn. These muscles pull the Eustachian tubes open. This requires a lot of practice, but some divers can learn to control those muscles and hold their tubes open for continuous equalization.

LOWREY TECHNIQUE: A combination of Valsalva and Toynbee. While closing your nose, blow and swallow at the same time. I am the first to say WHAT?!? Sorry can't do!!

Hope this helped. The best would be to get in a deep pool under supervision and practice to find a working solution.

 

[UncleDonnie]

Hi Ganu - I would suggest this isn't something to worry about too much as there is a physiological reason for it -the intranasal space communicates with a series of neighbouring air-filled cavities within the skull (the paranasal sinuses) and also, via the nasolacrimal duct, with the lacrimal apparatus (tearducts) in the corner of the eye. The duct drains the lacrimal fluid into the nasal cavity. So there is a connection between the tear ducts and the nasal pasages which in normal operation drains excess lacrimal fluid into the nasal passages. All that is in effect happening is that the air is being forced the other way from the nasal passages into the tear duct.


I have seen people who can expel smoke from cigarettes this way. I would suggest that the most effective response would be either try being more gentle about equalising (it isn't supposed to be forceful, but slow steady pressure) or try one of the other methods of equalising such as the yawning/jaw wiggling method which can be done and still retain the regulator in the mouth.

P

I agree however something along with this, I had a problem with diving and equalizing without pushing/blowing to hard. If she struggles with this, to make it easier on herself I recommend Sudafed. A lot of people complain however it works wonders for me, never had a problem with it, and keeps me nice and going. If this is the route you go make sure she takes it an hour before and make sure its the 12 hour one so there is little chance of it wearing off. However note that there is the chance if it wears off, getting a reverse block.

 

[Them]

If I plug my nose and blow ("valsalval maneuver" ) a steady stream of air flows from the corner of my right eye. With greater pressure air also leaks from the left. The leak happens whether I have perfectly clear sinuses or a head cold. At times it is a bit annoying for reasons your daughter is probably familiar with but the "leak" doesn't actually stop me from equalizing. I suspect your daughter can equalize the same way even if her eyes leak a lot more air than mine.


However, I can also equalize without touching my nose at all, using tricks along the lines described by ajduplessis as voluntary tubal opening. No eye air that way.

 

[Frosty]

eyes leak/nose leaks but both are in a low vol container ie the mask. I bet if she equalises early and often she wont have problems

 

[teknofly]

I'm able to blow bubbles through my eyes (near the tear ducts) and have no problem equalising at all. Usually my ears have well and truly equalised by the time air comes through the eyes.

I don't have to pinch my nose to equalise, a slight flex of the jaw and it's done. If she has difficulties equalising at the surface or the air is expelled from the eyes before she is able to equalise then you may need to investigate further.

 

[alan_lee]

I ruptured my ear drums during my Open Water course and copped a good bullocking from my instructor who insisted that it was my fault because I couldn't do the textbook "pinch and blow" method. I came across this excellent video (which I'd posted on my blog for the benefit of my students: My Life As A Scuba Instructor: Problems Clearing Your Ear? Read this!) and I tried the method recommended and had great success with it, and have been using it ever since. Hope it might help your girl as well!

 

[Lizard Leg]

Every time - *EVERY* - time I equalize under water, on land, on the boat, a plane, etc. air leaks out of the corner of my right eye. About 70% of the time it does out of both eyes. All I do when equalizing is squeeze my eyes shut at the same time. Works like a charm.

 

[g1138]

Valsalva maneuver, which is what she is trying to do is often taught wrong. You do NOT really want to blow your nose, but blow your throat. Direct air to your throat and hold your nose so it doesn't escape. Your soft palate alone is not strong enough to block this over pressure which is why you hold your nose.

By having air escape from her eyes, it's telling me she's directing the majority of her pressure into her nose where her tear ducts connect. She's constricting her throat and blocking her eustachian tube openings.

A lot of divers when doing this technique will squeeze and constrict their throat to blow hard. The result is that they direct air and mainly blow their nose. This does nothing to help an effect on your eustatchian tubes. You have to open your mouth, hitch your jaw forward and blow into your mouth cavity to allow more air into your throat area to allow the most air to pass where your eustachian tubes are.

If you can't build up enough pressure in this way to counteract the water pressure, you've waited too late to equalize.