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Few configuration questions

Discussion in 'Hogarthian Diving' started by Goindrinkn, Jan 13, 2009.

  1. Goindrinkn

    Goindrinkn Divemaster Candidate

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Sarasota, FL
    I am doing research as I slowly making the move to from your standard gulf diver setup to a HOG config. I am trying to understand a few points, as I like to justify the reason and not just do it because someone said it is right. (after all this is the internet.)

    For the SPG, I see that the proper configuration is a simple brass SPG. And I have seen some comments that this would be without a boot. My question (looking for education not flames) is, why no boot? Does a boot have any more risk of being an entanglement point that I am missing? Doesn't it offer some level of streamlining or protection? or Is it viewed as unnecessary and therefore simply tossed aside?

    My other question is: Is there any objection to specialized mouth pieces on the primary? (donor) Or is a poorly fitting mouthpice OK as long as it is a known working second stage. (yes this is nit picky, I'm just asking the question so I understand the process)

    Lastly, do you use the same fins for all environments? I.E. is there something that is less than perfect for cave diving that is more acceptable in OW diving as there may a significantly lower risk of entanglements, etc?

    Thank you in advance
  2. nereas

    nereas Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Expat Floridian travelling in the Land of Eternal
    "Hog" pertains to your backplate, wing, and webbing.

    Whatever else you do is not related to "hog" other than local urban legend perhaps.

    If there is a boot over your SPG, that does not un-make your hog rig from being a hog.

    I have found boots to be useless on the SPG, however.

    If you have a special mouthpiece for a really bad malocclusion, that may or may not cause problems if you need to donate your primary. Still, it would not change your hog rig from being a hog.

    And fins definitely have nothing to do with a hog rig, since they are down under.

    Have you heard of DIR? This has lots of separate rules for things like that however.

    And there are currently two variations on DIR, which are GUE-DIR (Pacific Northwest) and AG-DIR (Central California).

    There is also the original Florida-DIR which simply meant cave diving protocols in general, such as "two of everything" and "doing it right the first time because in a cave you do not get a second chance."

    Hope you enjoyed the history lesson? :D
  3. Goindrinkn

    Goindrinkn Divemaster Candidate

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Sarasota, FL
    Thank you for your response, (and the free education) I was not aware that Hogarthian was limited to the BP/W config. I was under the impression that it was minimalist all around. Good to know!

    And yes, my point of view does get skewed as the folks I speak with in person are those North Florida types!

    Thanks again...
  4. Dark Eternal

    Dark Eternal Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Houston, Texas
    The reason I was told not to use a boot on the SPG is actually not what I figured it would be. Corrosion - stuff gets trapped under the boot and eats away at the line and gauge. I was shown a SPG that had been rinsed after every dive but still corroded all to hell - granted he dove it just about every day for well over a year. Glass and brass SPGs are pretty tough - a boot doesn't offer much extra protection so I do not use one. I dont think using one will kill you instantly either - it just means you should pull it off and clean under it every once in awhile.
  5. battles2a5

    battles2a5 Divemaster

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
    Hogarthian is not limited to a BP/W. It is a philosophy, and a minimalist approach to diving, named after the cave diving pioneer William "Hogarth" Main. The "original Florida-DIR" which nereas incorrectly refers to has its roots in the Hogarthian philosophy. They just commercialized it and standardized a lot of the protocols. In general, take 2 of what you need and none of what you don't. Everything should have a purpose and more importantly, everything should compliment the rest of the system.

    That being said:
    1- SPG Boots: There's really nothing wrong with them, but you really don't need them. Nobody is going to drum you out of cave country for having them but many choose not to use them.
    2- Custom mouthpieces- if they are built specifically for your mouth, then they won't fit somebody else's too well. Consider that when you are donating the recipeint is already in a stressful situation, they really do not want to be struggling to breathe from the reg comfortably, especially if they have to travel any kind of distance to safety
    3- Fins. I use the same type of fin (jets) for all environment simply because I find them to be the most versatile fins I would need. I have a set for wet and dry (different sizes). But there is not hard and fast rule against fins with the exception of splits, which are a no-no in the caves for several reasons.
  6. oceancrest67

    oceancrest67 Barracuda

    Hogarthian is a philosophy and minimalist approach all around. I agree with battles2a5 summary. I would also add that I use jet fins while diving dry and I use dive rite for wet diving...no split fins. Spring straps are a must in cave and wreck diving.

    A diver ought to study his equipment lay out and configuration and determine redundancy and needs...while maintaining a minimalist approach. There is nothing wrong with reviewing one's recreational set up and configuration with a Hog approach. Less is more.

    Just my 02.
  7. DA Aquamaster

    DA Aquamaster Directional Toast ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: NC
    Ryan did a nice job of clearing up the Nearas inspired confusion about hog configuration. It really is a philosophy more than just a configuration and as such it applies to everything you bring on a given dive.

    Nearas is also a off on the DIR thing. DIR was an extension of hogartian philosophy and both were originally geared primarily to Florida cave diving with DIR moving a bit farther into team dynamics. DIR was not codified or formalized by an agency until GUE was developed. GUE took what was a constantly evolving and only semi-standardized approach that was passed mostly mentor to diver or diver to diver and standardized the hell out of it. A segment of DIR divers resent that (me included) as a small subset of GUE divers treat it almost like a religious cult where you can only do those things that are approved by the powers that be and everything else is by definition and holy decree wrong. Many GUE trained divers seem to think DIR is connected at the hip with GUE and that consequently if you are not GUE you cannot be DIR. DIR was around long before GUE was even thought of.

    In my opinion DIR was never agency based and does not realy fit with agency standardization as it limits the fundemental concept of being able to optimize your configuration for your particular diving environment.

    Rubber boots on brass SPG's add very little and if anything increase the profile of the SPG. I used to use Jet Fins exclusively, but OMS slipstreams are a lighter monoprene version and trim wise they work better for me in a cave environment where the fins ride a little than is the case in some open water environments. Do what works and what is optimum for you and for the dive (although I agree split fins are a universally bad call with doubles and in caves or wrecks.)

    I would not say you need spring straps to be hog - after all before spring straps, we just threaded the strap the other way so that the bitter end was on the inside of the buckle and then taped the loose end to the strap with electrical tape. It achieved the desired effect of removing a potential line trap. I have owned Jet fins since 1985 and the same rubber straps lasted from 1985 until about 2000 when I went with home made spring straps, so its hard to say a rubber strap is not hog because of any great risk of breaking it. And unless they have cave line strung inside them to prevent over extension, a spring strap can be broken through abuse as easily as a rubber strap.

    The custom moulded mouth piece issue came up between my buddy and myself prior to our Full Cave course. She had one and I pretty much insisted on having final approval that it would fit in my mouth as it is mine in any air share situation. It did so I had no major objection.

    I also tried one (and ensured it worked for her as well) and frankly I am not a real fan and will go back to a regular rubber mouthpiece as the moulded one brings nothing to the dive and over a long week of long dives actually seemed to cause some slight discomfort due to pressure on certain teeth due to the greater leverage of what is a much longer mouthpiece.

    In short, if it works for you that's fine - but be absolutely sure it works for everyone else on the dive team as well.

    From a reg tech perspective I hate them as they are very hard to remove and re-install. That creates a much greater potential that your reg will not get the same vacuum and flow checks as a reg with a regular mouthpiece that can much more easily be flow tested.

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