Fins and Kicks

[mcclete22]

So I am posting this because of the recent thread on which fins people prefer. I have only used TUSA splits, but after reading the thread ( and it was a long one), I have some kick questions. Now I read about people doing "Helicopter kicks", and back paddling and the such. My question, being fairly new is what are these kicks? How do you do them? And after reading all abouts kicks, I know I may sound silly, but what do people consider to be the highest efficiency kick to do? What methods do you use? Any info appreciated.

 

[OE2X]

You have asked a loaded question here and you might want to take a seat along with a big bucket of popcord.

Most efficient - that is subjective though engineer types will tell you otherwise.
IMHO - I like the frog kick for forward movement.

For reverse - I use a reverse frog kick. Essentially this is achieved by pointing your toes down, extending your legs with your feet and ankles together - then bending your knees and sweeping your feet out to the sides. I took a while for me to get this down.

Helicopter turn:
Essentially a frog kick where one foot does a forward modified frog and other does a modified reverse frog. This kick will actually be easier to achieve at first than the reverse frog.

With splits you will likely have some troubles doing the reverse frog. Better to have a full face fin.

Advantages of the frog: If you dive where there is silt - you won't muck up the vis. I use this kick in all environments though. What can I say - it works for me...

The helicopter turns allows you to pivot without using your hands. This is more efficient and if you are taking pictures - it allows you to adjust your view without taking you hand off the camera.

The reverse frog has the same effect as the Helicopter turn in that it allows you complete hands free control. This is really nice if you are doing airshares and are face to face on a long hose, and it works great for photos/ video...

Here are some good videos to help out.
http://www.divetekadventures.com/Images.htm

 

[Quarrior]

Best way to learn is to find some pretty experienced divers and get them to let you dive with them and copy their technique. You want to find wreck or cave divers or at least someone who uses doubles. These are the folks that use these kinds of kicks the most.

 

[scubafool]

The average newbie OW diver has been taught and uses the flutter kick. You basically move your feet up and down, one going up while the other is going down.

A variation of this is the modified flutter. The same kick, but mush less stroke, done with the knees bent so that the fins are above the rest of the body.

The frog is a kick that kinda sorta resembles a frog's jumping kick. Basically, you have to pivot your feet so that your fins are parallel to the horizontal, than draw your fins toward the front and the outside. Then you pivot your feet so that the bottom (flat) portion of your fins are facing each other. Now bring the fins together, almost as if you were trying to clap the bottoms of your feet together.

The back kick (as I understand it, I am just now finally starting to have a small amount of success with it) is basically a frog kick but in reverse.

The helicopter kick is basically a frog kick with one fin while you do a back kick with the other fin. Right now, I just settle for the frog kick with one fin

I use the frog kick almost exclusively, but then again, my main focus and aspiration is cave diving, where anti silting kicks are much preferred.

 

[kidspot]

Frog Kick http://www.5thd-x.com/videos/frogkick.html
Modified Frog Kick http://www.deepsouthdivers.org/modfrog1.avi
Modified Flutter kick http://www.deepsouthdivers.org/modflutter.avi
Helicopter Turn http://www.5thd-x.com/xducation/dvds/video/trimweb.mov (also a good example of "perfect trim")
Backwards kick http://www.5thd-x.com/videos/backkick.html (best online example I've seen yet)

If you want a good look at these I'd recommend picking up either the Essentials DVD from FthD-X http://www.5thd-x.com/xducation/dvds/essentialsdvd.html or the Intro to Tech from them http://www.5thd-x.com/xducation/dvds/introdvd.html both give excellent depictions of the various kicks, plus lots of other good info.

 

[Scuba Brad]

I think your find this interesting reading:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=134903

Happy Diving

 

[loosebits]

I almost exclusively use a modified frog (frog with the knees bent) as this is the best kick for keeping the bottom on the bottom. This works great in the caves and murkey Texas lakes. When I need some more thrust, I'll use a regular frog. I won't use this in a silty area unless I am several feet off the bottom. The only time I'll use a flutter is when I really need to book it (e.g. 40' out-of-air swim).

Most people will tell you that your splits are probably great for the really-need-to-book-it kick. For the other kicks they seem far from ideal. I've seen people frog kick in split fins but it didn't look very fun. I think they were just trying to prove a point.

If all you plan on doing is reefs with nice coarse sand that doesn't stay suspended for long, the flutter will get you by just fine. If you are interested in other kinds of diving or simply want the satisfaction of being 3" off the bottom and knowing you are leaving it just the way you found it, you'll want to consider some standard paddle fins.

 

[Marek K]

I've been working on my repertoire of kicks over the past couple of years. I probably still use the flutter the most, particularly when I need to put on a burst of speed -- I don't usually dive where there's a silty bottom.

I think I've got my frog kick pretty much down now; I asked an instructor to got out with me last year, and she confirmed that. But I'm still working on it.

The reverse kick is what's kicking my butt now... but I guess that's not unusual. Im almost too embarrassed to ask, but I assume it's the tops of your fins that's giving you propulsion? People have described it as the opposite of a frog, where the bottoms of your fins push against the water while coming together. Kidspot, I've studied the 5thd-x video, but it's just not that clear to me.

Helicopter turn: Essentially a frog kick where one foot does a forward modified frog and other does a modified reverse frog. This kick will actually be easier to achieve at first than the reverse frog.

Now that's interesting. I did notice last year that I started to "spontaneously" do some kind of kick that allowed me to pivot around in one place. Helicopter kick? I haven't yet had a chance to analyze what I was doing... but I always thought it couldn't be the helicopter, since I couldn't do a decent reverse kick yet.

But maybe?

--Marek

 

[TSandM]

Marek, I don't know the answer to your question, but I'm in the same boat. My back kick only works occasionally -- it certainly isn't reliable for anything -- but the helicopter is a nice pivot on the spot. So clearly I must be able to back kick one foot at a time . . . ?

 

[kidspot]

Listening to the Intro to Tech video they said regarding the backward kick that it utilizes the side of the fin as well as the top. What I noticed if you look there is a very slight angle to the fin, it has similar resistance in the water that a fan blade would have. Honestly it does seem to be one of the harder kicks for people to master.

Aloha, Tim