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First incident - free flow

Discussion in 'Accidents & Incidents' started by elan, May 10, 2009.

  1. elan

    elan DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    3,316
    378
    I like the idea but some people complain about the inconvenience but you positive post gives me hope. I'm currently looking at Octo Z implementation by Zeagle.
     
  2. scubadude79

    scubadude79 Contributor

    165
    0
    Good job!
    At least a minute from 60 ft. to the surface means that you did not exceed your max ascent rate :D

    Good rescue = good dive!
     
  3. jmyabeer

    jmyabeer Registered

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Edmonton, AB
    16
    0
    Hi Elan,

    Sorry for beating you up on this. I'd just like to give you a few things to think about. Diving is a funny thing, and sometimes equipment solutions to perceived problems can cause problems themselves. You see this all the time.

    It is probably a good thing that you surfaced, since you used 10 cu-ft for a 20 ft swim and a one minute ascent. Maybe there was more time spend at depth before you ascended?

    Well, you don't have it under your neck all the time. Now you have a different setup from when you decide you don't want a pony, and a different gas plan. How did you figure out your gas plan? Your buddy reserves enough for the both of you, and you turn when you hit that mark?

    It is hard to get familiarity with your gear when you keep changing things.


    Who sets a guideline that tells you to have only one second stage on your tank?

    Yes, you have taken a class, but you don't have the experience to back it up. Two relaxed divers sharing one second stage can have a lower consumption rate than one new, stressed diver. Unless the numbers are wrong, it looks like you blew through your 30. What if that had freeflowed? - you can't access your backgas, because your buddy has the only reg. Actually runaway inflators scare me more than a free flow - time to add a drysuit inflation bottle!

    I'm not kidding. You really need a P-valve. I wouldn't dive without mine. Needing to pee can cause a lot of stress.

    I haven't dived Toby for a long time btw, but I really like that place. I am diving most often in Lake Erie, or in Kingston.
     
  4. elan

    elan DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    3,316
    378
    no no. do not worry you are not beating me :) we have a good discussion you bring up points even if I have opinion which does not match yours at this time I may change it after analyzing your points. So I'm all good.

    Possible. I was not narced most likely as I was watching the gauges, tracking time and azimuth and have seen no difference in feeling before during or after but my time judgment could be off due to emergency.

    Besides another factor that I have forgotten to mention. it was 2500 on the shore. 1500 in the water after surfacing. After submerging I think the pressure probably fell to 2200 - 2300 due to cooling down. but still I got 700-800 psi

    You brought a good point in fact. I follow the rule that during gas planning I do not take the pony into account. As if it does not exist. I have a table in my book that displays rock bottom times for different tanks and depths. It takes into consideration 2 people surfacing and holding stops. On dives to 80-85 I have a rock bottom time of 1100 psi on HP100 in my mind. In that case though it's different as we swim from the shore and back to the shore and I calculate it so I have at least 500-700 psi on my return.

    But in all cases so far my pressure was around 1100-1200 after surfacing.


    It's not the question of having the second stage though. The main risk that I see and have pointed above (which I took even not from my training but from extra curriculum reading) is that my buddy will grab the octo and start cooling my first stage potentially causing the free flow on another reg. And another thing is that he might be confused which one to take. I spoke to my buddy, by the way, he said that he saw the yellow hose of my primary and there were no more stages except the pony it clicked that it was his. I guess Though we have discussed that fact before our first dive with him he mentioned that yellow color gave him the sign. The octo would have to be back and to be hidden. With 5' primary hose it's comfortable for me and long for him.

    In fact I do not reject your suggestion about having another access point for the primary tank and I'm working on that option. So far the most optimal solution I have found it placing a system like air2 on the BCD then the buddy will not be grabbing it and I have the second point. Though people say it's really uncomfortable it's basically my second backup and I can handle it in the event when even my bottle fails.

    All valid and good points as well. I think the rate was higher. Though I do not remember me breathing really hard but it was emergency for me, first time so my judgment of time could be off, but not much though. I think I was consuming more air for sure. For the RBT I use a rate of 2 cuf/m per person. Thanks you brought it up - I just plugged in the numbers into the calculator and get 1.77 cuf per min. I used 60' average depth (we spent half of the time at 83" then swam to 60 along the bottom and then surfaced), 1000 psi consumption. This is close to those 2cuf/min though :doh2:

    Yes that's true. But it will complicate the setup more :depressed:



    I was thinking about it and possible next year I will have it installed. It's not a problem now though as most of my diving is shore now and I can last for 30-40 mins of a dive pretty well:) but on boats it would be uncomfortable. I liked how it is arranged in France though :) On a boat the guys were just doing it over board and girls were not really paying any attention (or they were probably pretending :D )

    Should you come over here anytime you are welcome to have me as a buddy (within limits :)) if you desire. Kingston is wrecks mostly, I will start diving them not earlier than in 20-30 dives. Though I'm not talking about any penetration it still requires more control. That park is perfect for me as there is no much current and visibility is good. I use lower depths for low vis training. There are no big geological formations. I have my plan for next 20-30 dives :wink:

    I thank you and others for participation.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2009
  5. ShakaZulu

    ShakaZulu Contributor

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: San Diego, CA
    3,760
    13
    Get a BP/W, will solve all your problems :)
     
  6. alibi 2

    alibi 2 Divemaster

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Monterey Bay, CA
    397
    17
    when something goes wrong as a safety Regs will free flow or give too much air rather than no air...your friend should have been able to breath even if it was free flowing...was this not the case?
     
  7. openmindOW

    openmindOW HSA Instructor

    1,465
    127
    Thank you very much for your post.

    You stated that the free-Flowing diver's reg was an enviro-sealed Oceanic adn that it had been recently serviced. I'm not that familiar with Oceanic regs.

    Can any technicians out there shed some light on this?

    BTW, I have personally seen ScubaPro Mark 17s free-flow in cold water. And I own a few SP Mark 17s, so this isn't a ScubaPro bash.
     
  8. elan

    elan DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    3,316
    378
    how :D?
     
  9. elan

    elan DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    3,316
    378
    Yes he was breathing from free flowing reg for a min or so.
     
  10. ComputerJoe

    ComputerJoe Dive Charter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Alpena, Michigan
    397
    16
    Dude...Sounds like you have redundant 1st stages, why not upgrade that 30cf pony into a set of doubles with a lot more air. They can not be more complicated than what you have already. They will weight more so you will have to take some lead off the belt and you will have to invest into bands and manifold.

    IMHO I would venture that your buddy did not have a 1st stage freeze but two second stage freezes, expecially if both 2nds were the same basic model with the same dynamics. It dosen't take much to freeze a 2nd in 30 something degree water.

    On the surface one can turn off the tank and exhale into the problem reg, to melt the ice, for about 2 minutes and turn on the air again to isolate which stage is really the problem.
     

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