Free diving depth as part of solo dive certification?

[sylpha]

Agreed.

It concerns me a little that an instructor would want the OP to perform a max depth freedive (in a cold quarry!!). If the OP is not already an experienced freediver, does not have proper weighting and breathing/dive technique, and does not have a "spotter" in case of shallow water blackout.... frankly it makes me concerned.

It is one thing to do this in warm water with good viz.... cold water with "iffy" viz is another matter.

Best wishes.

i have to say it concerns me too. as a temperate (and some times b***** cold) water diver, i always feel nervous when someone tells me that they are a 'certified' diver, they learned in 'somewhere tropical' and they intend to start diving over here. then they just book on a boat. all it does is increase our incident statistics.

Free diving and scuba diving are 2 different sports. to assess solo diving on breath holding ability is lunacy, holding your breath on ascent is a sure way of bursting a lung.

if you intend to solo dive kit yourself out for it, learn how to use the kit, till everything you do is second nature (like driving a car) and go diving.

 

[Darnold9999]

I think there are two points of view being confused here. One is for those who free dive and are comfortable free diving and know their limitations in the water without scuba gear. The other is those who scuba - and don't regularly free dive and wouldn't know what their current limitations are without scuba. For the first, to measure their safety in the water based on their free diving limitations and to make decisions about when to stop using the surface as their redundant air source makes sense. If I am comfortable free diving to 60 feet (not a maximum but a comfortable dive) then coming up from 120 will be doable even in scuba gear. Probably not where I would draw my line, but it does give you a point to start from when deciding where your comfortable depth is. For those who don't regularly free dive and don't know their limitations measuring ther safety based on a free dive maximum would be dangerous.

With respect to the statistics it is virtually impossible to draw any conclusions from this data re solo diving. The vast majority of divers are not intentional solo divers with 100 plus dives doing solo dives. They are barely trained sheep trained to follow a DM around a tropical reef. To make valid inferences about one group of divers with statistics from another is pretty much impossible. The fact that some of these divers were alone when the accident happened does not make them solo divers it makes them buddy divers that lost their buddy.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I think there are two points of view being confused here. One is for those who free dive and are comfortable free diving and know their limitations in the water without scuba gear. The other is those who scuba - and don't regularly free dive and wouldn't know what their current limitations are without scuba. For the first, to measure their safety in the water based on their free diving limitations and to make decisions about when to stop using the surface as their redundant air source makes sense. If I am comfortable free diving to 60 feet (not a maximum but a comfortable dive) then coming up from 120 will be doable even in scuba gear. Probably not where I would draw my line, but it does give you a point to start from when deciding where your comfortable depth is. For those who don't regularly free dive and don't know their limitations measuring ther safety based on a free dive maximum would be dangerous.

With respect to the statistics it is virtually impossible to draw any conclusions from this data re solo diving. The vast majority of divers are not intentional solo divers with 100 plus dives doing solo dives. They are barely trained sheep trained to follow a DM around a tropical reef. To make valid inferences about one group of divers with statistics from another is pretty much impossible. The fact that some of these divers were alone when the accident happened does not make them solo divers it makes them buddy divers that lost their buddy.

Really? Have you ever tried it? Do you know what you are talking about or is this simply an assumption that you can make a CESA with zero air?

I have done MANY ditch and dons of my scuba unit, sometimes in 60 feet of water (solo). It is EASY! Of course I am rested and mentally prepared for the exercise and it has almost nothing to do with what a real emergency would be like. It is simply fun for me.

How far can you freedive with zero air in your lungs and while wearing a scuba tank, while a little negatively bouyant and also out of breath?

 

[redacted]

I took a quick look at my SDI Solo Cert card and there is no place for a max allowable depth entry.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I took a quick look at my SDI Solo Cert card and there is no place for a max allowable depth entry.

TDI/SDI have an entry on the online student registration for maximum depth. I always mark it N/A. Apparently, this particular instructor is putting a number in there which is likely being printed on the cards issued under his name.

 

[Darnold9999]

Really? Have you ever tried it? Do you know what you are talking about or is this simply an assumption that you can make a CESA with zero air?

I have done MANY ditch and dons of my scuba unit, sometimes in 60 feet of water (solo). It is EASY! Of course I am rested and mentally prepared for the exercise and it has almost nothing to do with what a real emergency would be like. It is simply fun for me.

How far can you freedive with zero air in your lungs and while wearing a scuba tank, while a little negatively bouyant and also out of breath?

The question how far can you freedive with zero air and scuba gear is not relevant. The two are completely different - the freedive just gives you a guide to how long you can go without air while exerting yourself. You then extrapolate to what that means in scuba - where you have lungs full of air (even at an exhale) and you need not exert yoursef to ascend, but you do have to push a bunch of gear through the water.

I have free dived to 60 feet and beyond many many times - 60 feet is not even particularly deep with fins. Once spent way too much time at that depth - in a cave where the water was crystal clear (open cave no overhead) not realizing how deep I had managed to get. Was just amazed at the clarity of the water and stopped paying attention because the surface looked so close - came up the last 20 feet or so like a rocket. Not a good plan with compressed air.

At the bottom of a breath at 120 feet you still have an enourmous amount of air in your lungs - the issue will be panic not lack of air. You might be a little negatively bouyant but one kick up fixes that and then the rest of the way up is managing positive bouyancy and trying to balance panic with a managed ascent to arrive at the surface as slow as is possible without drowning.

Have I tried a CESA from 120 feet - not a chance - the risks just start to accumulate at that depth. From 60 feet yes and as you say it isn't even particularly difficult lungs empty or full. Am I confident that I could do it from 120 feet - yes - because I can easily and comfortably free dive to 60 feet - not because I can barely make it to 60 feet, and given the alternative would take the risk of a too fast ascent over breathing water.

However as I also said I always carry a pony because from a deeper dive as panic starts to set in as you approach the surface you are far too likely to ascend too fast that last 20 or 30 feet. In my view better to have the option of a few breaths on the way up to manage panic and keep the ascent rate to a minimum. Also I am not anywhere near as good a shape as I once was so what was easy is becoming less so.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

My 12 yr old swam 150 ft horizontally in the pool with freediving gear last night (a new personal best).

I guess that means he can solo with no redundancy to 150 feet depth.

 

[Darnold9999]

My 12 yr old swam 150 ft horizontally in the pool with freediving gear last night (a new personal best).

I guess that means he can solo with no redundancy to 150 feet depth.

He can - wouldn't recomend it - which is I'm sure the point of the post.