Freediver missing in Eagle's Nest

[aquacat8]

It was actually something like 4832 hours logged (commercially).

I can only hazard a guess on cave dives, but once upon a time, I looked at a three year total of just over 900 trying to catch Jim Wyatt. I think he was almost double for the same time period.

Then I got a rebreather and things got really stupid. On a slow month I'm doing 50 hours underwater. Still not bent.

Oh I get it, you have gills, admit it fish-man! ;-)

 

[Superlyte27]

Lol...nope.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

When I was a young freediver I survived three blackouts. The first one was in a pool doing static apnea. A French freediver brought me up and a female lifeguard got me breathing. The second was when a female DM/instructor realized I had been on the surface a while and hadn't moved. She found me unconscious with the snorkel in my mouth, but clear of water from the expansion method when a SWBO occurred. I had spent too much time at 100 feet smiling and profiling for the tourists. The last blackout was during a class. The student, who I had taught to do rescue the day before, saved me after a deep water blackout when I was under for over 5 minutes. I was lucky to have survived.

A couple years ago, I wrote PSAI's freediving manual and suggested divers follow US Navy Captain Dr. Frank Butler's advice and not hold one's breath longer than one minute. Blood gas analysis on Ama freedivers (Japanese and Korean women who freedive for a living hunting and gathering in the sea) showed significant hypoxia after 1 minute. I say learn from the Ama = A Minute Always, no longer. I show a slide in freediving classes showing that the signs and symptoms of hypoxia correlate with all of the spiritual yogi-like mumbo jumbo and subjective feelings that make freedivers like the sport. As more training agencies adopt freediving courses, there needs to be a shift away from the competitiveness of freediving to the safety aspects. Deep air records on scuba are no longer macho or a demonstration of diving prowess as they used to be. That is not to knock the courage and talent of those who paved the way in either endeavor. But, thanks to science and the experiences of those who survived the old days and those who didn't, we now know better.

Just as we know that there are better alternatives to diving deep air, if a diver wishes to remain at depth during an apnea dive longer than science says is safe, the alternative is scuba. Freediving has no business in the cavern or cave environments. Diving in any significant overhead other than possibly a small attraction sunk in a training quarry such as a cabin cruiser, school bus, or plane is too risky. Not just for the freediver, but for the environment, access to the site, and cavern/cave divers in the overhead. The practice should be discouraged. Open water divers have no business in caverns. An open water diver without the ability to breathe has even less. With the popularity of freediving exploding and agencies selling the idea that holding one's breath for a long time is cool, the rising death toll needs to stay away from our caves.

Want to see the inside of a cavern or cave? Take a course and earn the privilege like those of us who are certified cave divers.

 

[Bob DBF]

A couple years ago, I wrote PSAI's freediving manual and suggested divers follow US Navy Captain Dr. Frank Butler's advice and not hold one's breath longer than one minute.

Hadn't heard of it before, but it seems I've been using it for decades with good results. I don't do any special breathing, just relax on the surface breathing normally through the snorkel, and make the dive.

CO2 lets me know when I should come up, and I don't put off the ascent too long. Depending on how I feel at the time and how the urge to breathe hits me, I start up somewhere between a half a minute and a tad over a minute, sometimes less. I've been doing it this way for decades and it works for me and what I want to do underwater. Not having my ears clear fast enough on the decent is my biggest issue.


Bob

 

[Vicko]

Holding the breath for one minute in freediving is the scuba equivalent of a discovery dive, almost everyone can do it with minimal training with a very wide margine of safety.

People die, sometimes driving a car, sometimes exploring caves on a breathhold, it's nothing new and does not mean that driving cars or freediving in overhead is inherently dangerous (and this guy was not in a overhead situation).

 

[Superlyte27]

Holding the breath for one minute in freediving is the scuba equivalent of a discovery dive, almost everyone can do it with minimal training with a very wide margine of safety.

People die, sometimes driving a car, sometimes exploring caves on a breathhold, it's nothing new and does not mean that driving cars or freediving in overhead is inherently dangerous (and this guy was not in a overhead situation).

Please quit talking.

 

[Nick Steele]

I can see the allure of freediving in a spring if you can’t make it to the ocean to practice/keep skills up. This is a sad thing to happen here as I believe it is a beautiful site that already gets a ton of bad press because of fatalities.


Personally I would never enter an overhead on a breathhold after my trip to blue springs. Was cool but nerves got to me after about 10-15’ through those trees and I exited unharmed and only being under for like 20 seconds. I have a breathhold of 2-3 minutes but rarely go longer than 45 seconds as I’m mostly alone and don’t care to take risk.

 

[aquacat8]

When I was a young freediver I survived three blackouts. The first one was in a pool doing static apnea. A French freediver brought me up and a female lifeguard got me breathing. The second was when a female DM/instructor realized I had been on the surface a while and hadn't moved. She found me unconscious with the snorkel in my mouth, but clear of water from the expansion method when a SWBO occurred. I had spent too much time at 100 feet smiling and profiling for the tourists. The last blackout was during a class. The student, who I had taught to do rescue the day before, saved me after a deep water blackout when I was under for over 5 minutes. I was lucky to have survived.

A couple years ago, I wrote PSAI's freediving manual and suggested divers follow US Navy Captain Dr. Frank Butler's advice and not hold one's breath longer than one minute. Blood gas analysis on Ama freedivers (Japanese and Korean women who freedive for a living hunting and gathering in the sea) showed significant hypoxia after 1 minute. I say learn from the Ama = A Minute Always, no longer. I show a slide in freediving classes showing that the signs and symptoms of hypoxia correlate with all of the spiritual yogi-like mumbo jumbo and subjective feelings that make freedivers like the sport. As more training agencies adopt freediving courses, there needs to be a shift away from the competitiveness of freediving to the safety aspects. Deep air records on scuba are no longer macho or a demonstration of diving prowess as they used to be. That is not to knock the courage and talent of those who paved the way in either endeavor. But, thanks to science and the experiences of those who survived the old days and those who didn't, we now know better.

Just as we know that there are better alternatives to diving deep air, if a diver wishes to remain at depth during an apnea dive longer than science says is safe, the alternative is scuba. Freediving has no business in the cavern or cave environments. Diving in any significant overhead other than possibly a small attraction sunk in a training quarry such as a cabin cruiser, school bus, or plane is too risky. Not just for the freediver, but for the environment, access to the site, and cavern/cave divers in the overhead. The practice should be discouraged. Open water divers have no business in caverns. An open water diver without the ability to breathe has even less. With the popularity of freediving exploding and agencies selling the idea that holding one's breath for a long time is cool, the rising death toll needs to stay away from our caves.

Want to see the inside of a cavern or cave? Take a course and earn the privilege like those of us who are certified cave divers.

Well said! And very interesting. You made me feel better about my “under a minute” dives. Like @Bob DBF I’ve been doing it this way for years. But all these crazy freediving videos and records were making me feel wimpy, now I can feel better about that.

Where I was shorting myself was SI, but with my new Geo2 I can track that. I was mystified at first that the watch showed some dives at a minute and a half, but then I realized if you don’t wait through it’s minute countdown on the SI it adds the dives together. So it forces me to wait at least a minute, though since SI should be at least twice dive time in freediving I am learning to wait longer. Unfortunately it does not save all the freedives though I think if I had a data cable they might be in there. It’s really a scuba watch with some free diving capabilities, not a dedicated free diving watch.

 

[aquacat8]

When I learned Scuba they were still teaching free diving as “skin diving” and they expected us to be comfortable with it… Is that still the case?

 

[aquacat8]

I too fear that accidents like this could affect access to important sites.