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Frustration moving into/towards tech

Discussion in 'Technical Diving Specialties' started by jlcnuke, Aug 6, 2020.

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  1. racanichou

    racanichou Manta Ray

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Ottawa, Canada
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    I’m still not sure how this whole discussion about GUE is helping the OP with his issue... perhaps this needs a MOD clean up
     
    chillyinCanada likes this.
  2. Jack Hammer

    Jack Hammer Solo Diver

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    Insincere and condescending apologies are worthless.
     
    grantctobin likes this.
  3. CptTightPants21

    CptTightPants21 Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: NY/NC/FL
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    I am going to disagree with this from a number of angles.

    Your statement about not wanting an easy pass, but that almost everyone who meets prerequisites should pass as sign of a properly designed course.

    This statement might be correct if the previous course work was held to the same standards, but in vast majority of cases it is not. A strong case could be made that the "easy pass" that most students experience in scuba is directly responsible for the failure rate of fundies-- I believe it is around 50%, but don't quote me).

    Not all prerequisites are the same. Algebra 1 & 2 at a community college isn't the same as Alegbra 1 & 2 at MIT.

    The skills covered in fundies are all skills covered in OW and AOW scuba courses. Air share, valve drill, dsmb deployment, mask removal..Fundies doesn't reinvent the wheel, but it does help illuminate deficiencies in past training.

    Military, police, firefighters, EMT, there are countless examples of people taking courses with high fail rates. Striving for excellence means blind standards and standards mean that not everyone will make it.

    Learning vs Implementation vs Evaluation
    I can take a 4 day course on how to run a marathon or become a master chef. I can learn those techniques, but it still doesn't mean I will be instantly able to run a marathon after 4 days of class. It might take some time to practice and build up those skills and experience level. Some classes should be judged on their ability to convey knowledge. 'Did I learn something new everyday, am I better at X after taking the course?'

    I think everyone that has passed fundies and even a good amount of those that have not would answer that they expanded their knowledge and increased their abilities over their 4 (or 5) days.

    Perhaps it would be easier for you if you acknowledge fundies as an evaluation more than a course. Fundies is the evaluation to see if a student is worthy of taking Tech or Cave training from GUE instructors--and those classes all have pass rates a little over 80%.
     
  4. jlcnuke

    jlcnuke Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: acworth ga
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    You're welcome to your opinion, however flawed I may find it. But quite frankly, I'm done trying to explain to people the basics of proper training curriculum development. I'm still not going to be doing any GUE courses and I'm starting to think that it's adherents can't accept any criticism (even if they don't understand it) and refuse to accept that anyone else might not have their devotion to GUE honestly, and ya'll are actually making me even more and more convinced to not have anything to do with the organization.
     
    Ontwreckdiver and ChuckP like this.
  5. helodriver87

    helodriver87 DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Alabama
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    I think it would be a pretty bad fit, given what I've read. So I think enough has been said.
     
  6. seeker242

    seeker242 DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Pompano Beach, FL
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    The problem with # 1 is fundamentals, is itself, the prerequisite to begin with. What do you expect? For people to already know and perform the fundamentals before taking fundamentals? That makes no sense and would defeat the whole purpose of the class to begin with. The whole reason why fundamentals was created to begin with is because everyone was flat out failing the technical classes. So what did they do? They did exactly what you said should be done, they made the prerequisite much more adequate and appropriate. That prerequisite is fundamentals...

    The problem with # 2 is the course content is not the thing that accomplishes the goals to begin with. What accomplishes the goals is the student putting in the necessary practice time. For some people, 4-5 days is simply not enough. What do you expect? For everyone to just magically progress in the same time frame? That makes no sense either. That’s completely unrealistic.

    Fundamentals doesn’t need to be changed because it doesn’t have the problems you are imagining it has. Your assumptions for both 1 and 2 are way off base to begin with.
     
    EireDiver606, grantctobin and PfcAJ like this.
  7. wetb4igetinthewater

    wetb4igetinthewater Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
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    That's why I suggested for those with deficient skills to work with a GUE instructor to prepare for the course.

    There's no need for an additional course.
     
  8. ginti

    ginti DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Lyon, France
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    GUE reccomends to speak with an instructor before to enroll for a class. In case they perceive that your possibility to get a pass is low, they will suggest to split the course into fundamental part 1 an part 2, which already exist...
     
    elgoog likes this.
  9. barth

    barth DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Netherlands
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    My motivation to do training at gue is that I can join projects and dive with other gue trained people that makes it easy for me to find a buddy. (And the quality of the training is very good. But there are also other good instructors at others agency.)

    But if he will choose other training agency after fundamentals it’s just about the skills.

    If he’s doing intro to tech and he find a good instructor who will learn him the skills then it would also be ok.

    He can’t do much more gue training after gue fundamentals and do still solo diving. Maybe I’m wrong. But if I’m wrong why did gue contact me after somebody was complaining about me and solo diving?

    I didn’t even do a solo dive !

    In the past I would have told the same as in your post. But I did change my mind.
     
  10. ginti

    ginti DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Lyon, France
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    This fact that they contacted you is a bit weird... during al the courses/training I did, GUE instructors ALWAYS told me that what I do (when I am on my own) is my own business. I did courses with instructors up to Instructor Evaluator level.

    Frankly speaking, never discussed about solo diving, so maybe are they more strict about it? I will ask around, because I agree with you, it's particularly annoying that they tell you what to do when you're not diving with them.
     
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