Frustrations with the local LDS's

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ScubaSquatch

Contributor
Divemaster
Messages
136
Reaction score
108
Location
Kansas
# of dives
I just don't log dives
A little back story. I began looking for dive shops back in mid-summer for my son and I to get our OW certs through for his 10th birthday. I ended up going ahead and getting my cert ahead of his at the recommendation of several people which now that I have been through the training and better understand the risk in diving I can say it was absolutely the best way to go about this. I plan to follow up with AOW and Rescue before the end of next summer. At the beginning though I started off speaking with a shop close to our home that was very welcoming and stated that we should do a try scuba class with them first to see if he would like it since he’s young. The way they went about the try scuba session looking back after having been trained was really kind of scary but at the time I had never had a regulator in my mouth so I didn’t know any better. They basically strapped all the gear on us and said “Have fun if you go to the deep end it might hurt your ears so beware of that”. We both had fun and it confirmed that he wanted to continue to pursue diving. So after the try scuba class I wanted to discuss options for us doing the open water class together. They were more adamant though about me signing him up for their youth program but they were being elusive as to what exactly was detailed other than he would get training and then be part of their “youth dive club” that has monthly meetings and activities. After he heard their pitch about all the fun games they’d play every month he was sold so I signed him up. Now, they had told me that his “youth program” cert class would be over the span of two days. They gave him one day of training and then tried to send him home with a dvd and call that the second day of training. I had words with the shop and explained that I was told he would receive two days in the pool for training. Their response was “He doesn’t need a second day in the pool. He basically knows it all”. After some strong words they conceded to give him the training I paid for. The cost of these two days “training” was $250.00 and all it qualified him to do was participate in their club which cost another $260 in dues every six months. (Again at the time I didn’t know any better).

I decided to start looking into other shops for us to cert through as I didn’t feel all warm and cozy about the one we had been going to. I ended up at another shop further away from our home but I immediately felt like I was in the right place. I could tell from my first conversations with them that they we’re very serious about their training programs. They we’re the ones that discouraged me from letting him take the class before I had any training myself. I went ahead and signed up and completed my OW with them last month. I will start working on my AOW and Rescue next spring. My son will start his class room work in December, and his OW check next summer.

The only issue I have with the new shop is the way the treat you if you don’t buy every piece of gear from them. I have been slowly collecting gear for both my son and myself and I discussed my plans for future gear purchases with them. The problem is that they only want to sell me the most expensive gear and get testy when I mention lower cost options. They also don’t seem to be very keen on slowly piecing things together. They try to push for a one time purchase of the whole kit. I’ve explained to them that I’m not in that position financially. This usually ends any help I can get from them. The impression I get from them is “It’s either buy the Lamborghini or shop elsewhere.”

So I feel like I have nowhere to go. I have one shop that seems like they just want to collect my money and then half ass the training. And I have one shop that training wise is wonderful and the people and instructors are great during the class but if I don’t plan to spend more than a $1000.00 at a time they don’t have interest in the business I’m trying to give them. I have since bought some new gear and some used here and there whenever a really good deal has come around but I don’t feel like I have anywhere I can go to get service for it.

I don’t get how places of business can operate this way. If I ran my business like either of these I’d be out of customers real fast.
 
I'm sorry to hear about your difficulties. The first shop sounds downright dishonest and might have engaged in practices that warrant a report to whichever certification agency they operate under.

The second shop seems better, but it's too bad they won't accommodate you on gear purchases. In their defense and speculating a bit, it's not uncommon to have the diver training be a "loss leader" to attract gear purchasers. It sounds like there are not a lot of shops in the area. I suspect these shops are financially in a tough spot themselves since clientele may be very limited.

Are they selling cheaper gear, and pushing you toward high-end? If so, then you can just push back and say no thanks, I'll buy this instead. Don't be rude, but be assertive. If they're still obnoxious, I'd ask to speak to a manager.

Do they rent gear for checkout dives, or expect you to have your own purchased gear? (Mask/fins/snorkel and sometimes boots and gloves are often considered "personal gear" and many shops require you to buy these. I'm thinking more about wetsuits, BC, regulator, weights, and cylinder.) I can't imagine they wouldn't let you use gear for a checkout that you'd purchased elsewhere.

Another option which can be a bit risky is to shop online. Leisurepro.com is one option, and I've heard folks praise diversdirect.com. If you do this, be careful of the following:

1. Decide what model you want first. Make sure it can be serviced locally. There are mail-order service shops that I presume do good work, but then you're without gear at a potentially critical time. (Learning to service your own gear is an option, but if it were my 10 year old I would want somebody who does servicing routinely do it.) I'd make sure the shop locally is able to and willing to service it.
2. Make sure you're getting a unit intended for the US market and thus appropriately warrantied. Strange things happen.
3. Go for a known quantity when ordering online. Do your homework, read reviews, etc..

You might get something used on craigslist or this site, but make sure it can be serviced. You'll want to have it all checked out before you use it.

The LDS I use most often and second most often (I have lots of options) only sell solid gear, albeit from the range of entry-level to high-end. They do offer package discounts, and would advise that "this package will be cheaper as a unit than if you try to piece it together" but they also have less expensive and more expensive packages.
 
I wouldn't be happy in your shoes either. When I started piecing my personal gear together...I went in and place what I'll call a "test" order with two local dive shops.

Those orders were x <$100 and were used to gauge two things: 1. Will they deal with me if I'm just wanting to place a small order? And 2. Can they get that right?

Both shops passed my test and I have since purchased from both of them on multiple occasions.

It might be worth it to you to extend your range a bit to check out other dive shop options. That and consider independent/small shops.
 
LDSs are small businesses with a wide variety of service and quality levels. Are either of these advertising that they're a PADI 5-Star shop?

Another option is to take your son on a cruise and get certified during that.
 
A tough situation. The first shop is out, obviously. So unless you have a 3rd choice, you're stuck with the second. I do admire them for not wanting you certified together, and your plan to get Rescue cert. in the near future (a pet peeve of mine--two new divers buddying up, not to mention the young age of one).
Regarding sales, you mention that they will treat you poorly if you don't buy what they suggest, and buy from them. Does that mean they won't service gear bought elsewhere? If so, I guess you could take the courses from them and get your stuff serviced at the first shop (dicey, I know).
We are lucky here in that our shop doesn't play those games, and they could as they basically are the only game in town of significant size.
My guess is these shops would soon close if in Southern Florida or other places with much competition.
 
There's more shops in town they're just further away. I'm going to have to shop around a bit. I'm for sure done with shop #1. It just pisses me off more than anything about shop #2. They have the opportunity to gain some/a lot business from me but they would rather have an oath of allegiance signed in blood and cash.
 
This is simple..its YOUR money. Spend it how you feel it should be spent! Why would you or anyone be afraid to tell a salesperson, thanks, but no thanks...I'm going to shop around!

Do some research and buy on-line!
 
I totally understand that they need to sell equipment to pay their bills but at the same time if I were running the business and someone came in with gear I didn't sell them I would see that as an opportunity to win their business through great service not make them feel like a second class citizen. The dealership that services my truck I know would have loved to sell it to me but they sure as hell wont complain about me paying them to service it instead of paying the other guys.
 
Glad your love for diving hasn't suffered for the poor business people running the shops nearby.

Certainly is frustrating to be given the run around and pushed into things we don't want/need or our trust and inexperience taken advantage of. It's a failed business model. Vote with your dollars.

Feel free to run figure ideas past the community here if you want a sounding board or a broader perspective to confirm your suspicions.

Is it an option to find dive buddies/mentors locally and just use the shop for air fills? Servicing your own regs is quite easy if your mechanically minded and enjoy such things.

Sounds like you're well on your way.
Cameron
 
LDS's are an interesting breed. When I was first certified in wisconsin I somehow managed to luck out and the local shop had excellent owners, concerned more about training safe divers than selling gear (although yes they wanted to do that). I had no idea how lucky I was until I moved and tried to find a new shop. After MANY issues and basically being forced to lean a lot more than I expected I'd have to (although I'm now happily VCI certified). I found another shop owned by a couple that are open, honest, and explain as needed without me feeling they are just trying to give me an answer to go away or sell me more stuff. Keep searching, do the research as needed. And keep asking until you get an answer you are comfortable with. Diving overall is a pretty safe sport (based on some of the people I know that have managed to survive) - but obviously can turn bad quick if the conditions are right, so the more training and experience the better. The first shop actually had great DM and trainers - but I wouldn't trust them with my gear ever again (of course now I know how to service my own gear because of that experience). So you may have to look for one shop for some things, another shop for other things - and even certain people at the shops (unless the shop is the owner's passion - not just a business). Obviously they are a business and have to make sales to stay in business - it's all about how they go about that.
 

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