Future of DiveShops?

[boulderjohn]

Like I have said before, if a local dive club bought a compressor (it's been talked about at meetings) and could do vis/hydro I would have no need for the LDS at all, which would be fine by me.

I have seen it tried twice. It didn't work either time. There were too many logistics to work out. In both cases, they had the compressor already, so initial purchase price was not an issue.

1. Where do you store it?
2. How do people get access to where it is stored?
3. Who maintains it?
4. What kind of liability insurance is needed for the club members, and how is it paid?
5. What kind of insurance is needed for the fill location?
6. How can you be sure safety standards are being followed for fills?
7. Are you going to have nitrox made there? If so, how will that be done?
8. If you are going to do nitrox through partial pressure blending, how will you ensure that whoever is doing the blending is properly certified and is following procedures that will not result in the building blowing up?

 

[redacted]

I have seen it tried twice. It didn't work either time. There were too many logistics to work out. In both cases, they had the compressor already, so initial purchase price was not an issue.

1. Where do you store it?
2. How do people get access to where it is stored?
3. Who maintains it?
4. What kind of liability insurance is needed for the club members, and how is it paid?
5. What kind of insurance is needed for the fill location?
6. How can you be sure safety standards are being followed for fills?
7. Are you going to have nitrox made there? If so, how will that be done?
8. If you are going to do nitrox through partial pressure blending, how will you ensure that whoever is doing the blending is properly certified and is following procedures that will not result in the building blowing up?

I doubt if club start-ups will see much success until other options are lost.

A club will still have expenses but it should have less mouths to feed than an LDS. All those other questions will work themselves out once other alternatives are eliminated.

 

[MrCultureJammer]

1) at the club presidents house (where meetings are held)
2) every club member would have access during business hours
3) we all do. Our dues would pay for maintenance.
4) I'd say that 90% of our members are certified for air tank fills, having taken the class. I myself took it. It's not hard. We'd have to check insurance rates, but it would be covered by our dues.
5) as long as whoever is filling is certified to do so, insurance shouldn't be a problem.
6) we'd follow the protcol we learned in class for air fills
7) no nitrox. Not enough interest in it, according to those in the class.
8) no nitrox. Only air fills.

We'd have to do vis and hydro at an LDS though. That's asking too much.

 

[Octopusprime]

This was actually major turn-off when I was a younger man in my 20's and interested in learning to scuba dive the first time, that I walked out and did not return for another 10 years and long after I had taken my business online. The (airquote) "insurance reason" policy stank of the upsell that it was, after I had felt that I was already being sold a bill of goods. The other long thread about why diving is failing to attract new people was spot on with my own experience. My LDS makes me feel like I'm a sucker every time I walk in there. It is a very different feeling than some of the better shops I've been to.

Maybe the dive shops should take a lesson in business like how Uber and Lyft are giving the taxi drivers a lesson. What if you gave the market competitive prices and superior service instead of trying to make a quick buck out of them? You know, customer loyalty is earned ... not deserved.

Im not saying it is right for everyone. I have 2 shops I frequent that have their own pool I like the convience and ability to demo gear in the water. One we have worked out an arrangement we rent their pool for students and we use them for student gear earning credit for fills, pool rental etc... It is a win win... If I bring in a class of 6 and they by MFSB my pool fee amost nothing. And they use the pool another day a week...

---------- Post added December 29th, 2014 at 08:19 PM ----------

Where do you get your gasses? Online? Where would you go for an emergency to save a dive? Online? Its nice you have manufacturers near you, but most of us don't. I depend on my LDS for nearly everything. I don't mind paying a small premium for the extra service and customer support. Another big plus is being able to try gear prior to purchasing it. I can try gear in the LDS pool and make sure its what I want prior to the big purchase....you can't get that type of service from an online retailer. For me my LDS is not an option its a huge advantage. Where do you get your visual inspections? Online? Ship your cylinders every year? It will be a sad day when LDSs go the way of the small family hardware stores, grocery stores etc... You just can't get the same service from an online big box store. I'll pay a little more to get that service. Just my opinion.

I too do not paying a little more to be able to touch it and see it not to mention get it today... I think every shop needs something to get people in... Could be service, fills, gear what ever but then you need something to add on sales while they are there...I do not think most dive shops have enough small dollar items and accessories. If someone is in for an $8 fill and you can get them to buy a $12 slate you just doubled your sales for the week.

 

[cerich]

I disagree.

Mail order retailers are what is killing LDSs. People think they are getting a GREAT DEAL!! online. Ok maybe so, however, figure in shipping, figure in NO SERVICE unless you ship again. Try getting a cylinder refilled online! Or getting a Nitrox mix online! What if you need to replace a piece of equipment due to failure for a dive the next day.....go online and order it......5 to 10 days later you may get it, however your dive is lost.

People don't figure in the ability to go to an LDS and get repairs and replacement equipment, air, nitrox etc.... Most people only think about the initial price of a thing. Yes, you will pay a few dollars more at your LDS, but the long term benefits of having a good LDS is worth the few extra dollars you may spend here and there.

That's just my opinion anyway.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

An LDS needs to be much more than just a gear supplier these days. The internet does a better job at just plain supply.
In order for a dive shop to offer something that the internet cannot they need to look at the experience the customer gets when they walk in.
Anybody can sit behing a computer and order gear cheaper with no shipping and never leave the house. If you know what you want and know what you're getting then that's fine, but many times people don't exactly know what they are buying. It could be they read it on the internet somewhere to get "this" so they get it.
The LDS needs to educate themselves fully on what is going on out there in gear land so they too can decide whether they want to get involved in some of the things that have become "internet phenomenon". I see too many dive shops that have decided to bury their heads in the sand when it comes to all the new gear that people are trying.
The LDS also needs to understand what the internet cannot provide, and that is connection between other divers face to face, dive outings, gear discussions face to face (talking shop), the good old conversations around the fill station, building interest and excitement about diving in everybody that comes in, and just good old plain making people feel good (making their day).
Too many dive shops have an attitude of "just buy something and get out".
I remember the days when my LDS was a great place that people would just stop in to see what's new. While we were in there we see a shop club dive that was happening and sign up.
The other thing dive shops need to be is full service.
Just because some things may not make the most money or even be a loss, you have to look at the overall picture of those things being a support structure for the things that do make money.
If there are any holes in stock, products, or sevices, then that gives people a reason to go elsewhere including the internet.
People like a one stop shop.
The shops that will make it are the ones who have everything in house and treat everybody like they are valuable.
I don't think the prices are as important as people think. If they can get close I think it would help, but if they make it up in the human experience that you can't get online then they are providing something that the net can't.

 

[boulderjohn]

I doubt if club start-ups will see much success until other options are lost.

A club will still have expenses but it should have less mouths to feed than an LDS. All those other questions will work themselves out once other alternatives are eliminated.

For shops in an area where there is a lot of local diving, offering fills can create a small profit, but the demise of the fill-based shop shows that it will not be much. For a club in the same area, it can work well as an alternative. I don't live in such an area. Here is Colorado filling tanks is a HUGE loss for the shops. They have all the expenses of doing it with almost none of the revenue. They only do it because it is necessary to support instruction. If you have a club doing it instead, they will be sharing that loss, and they will have to figure out a way to share it equitably. Think that through. If only a small number of people are diving locally, you have only a small number of people sharing those costs, with no revenue from instruction and sales to help out. The per tank costs will be enormous.

I occasionally make nitrox in this area for myself and students. Most shops won't do it because there are not enough students using it to justify the cost. The per tank cost for my oxygen is outrageous because I don't have enough people to share the costs of both the gas and the rental of the supply tanks.

 

[Kevrumbo]

I doubt if club start-ups will see much success until other options are lost.

A club will still have expenses but it should have less mouths to feed than an LDS. All those other questions will work themselves out once other alternatives are eliminated.

1) at the club presidents house (where meetings are held)
2) every club member would have access during business hours
3) we all do. Our dues would pay for maintenance.
4) I'd say that 90% of our members are certified for air tank fills, having taken the class. I myself took it. It's not hard. We'd have to check insurance rates, but it would be covered by our dues.
5) as long as whoever is filling is certified to do so, insurance shouldn't be a problem.
6) we'd follow the protcol we learned in class for air fills
7) no nitrox. Not enough interest in it, according to those in the class.
8) no nitrox. Only air fills.

We'd have to do vis and hydro at an LDS though. That's asking too much.

For shops in an area where there is a lot of local diving, offering fills can create a small profit, but the demise of the fill-based shop shows that it will not be much. For a club in the same area, it can work well as an alternative. I don't live in such an area. Here is Colorado filling tanks is a HUGE loss for the shops. They have all the expenses of doing it with almost none of the revenue. They only do it because it is necessary to support instruction. If you have a club doing it instead, they will be sharing that loss, and they will have to figure out a way to share it equitably. Think that through. If only a small number of people are diving locally, you have only a small number of people sharing those costs, with no revenue from instruction and sales to help out. The per tank costs will be enormous.

I occasionally make nitrox in this area for myself and students. Most shops won't do it because there are not enough students using it to justify the cost. The per tank cost for my oxygen is outrageous because I don't have enough people to share the costs of both the gas and the rental of the supply tanks.

The busiest most active private Scuba Club in the tropical Pacific:

The Kwajalein Scuba Club is dedicated to promoting safe diving here at Kwajalein Atoll. We have over 200 members and on average use 650 tanks per month. . .

Kwajalein Scuba Club

Very exclusive though -most members have Top Secret Dept of Defense Security Clearances.

 

[boulderjohn]

The busiest most active private Scuba Club in the tropical Pacific:

The Kwajalein Scuba Club is dedicated to promoting safe diving here at Kwajalein Atoll. We have over 200 members and on average use 650 tanks per month. . .

Kwajalein Scuba Club

I am going to hazard a wild guess and say that the sociological situation on Kwajalein is somewhat different from a typical community in the United States or in other countries in the western world.

Actually, I am not guessing. One of the instructors in my shop here in Boulder became an instructor in Kwajalein and worked there for quite some time. It is a bit different from Colorado.

 

[scubafanatic]

I am going to hazard a wild guess and say that the sociological situation on Kwajalein is somewhat different from a typical community in the United States or in other countries in the western world.

Actually, I am not guessing. One of the instructors in my shop here in Boulder became an instructor in Kwajalein and worked there for quite some time. It is a bit different from Colorado.

Different in the sense that you don't get unlimited government subsidies from an almost infinite Pentagon budget ?