General Vortex Incident Discussion

[sabbath999]

Recovery must be done by ICURR people or you have committed a crime.

Can you explain this a bit further? I assume it is perfectly OK to FIND a dead body in a cave (well, not OK in the BIG sense, it is freaky and horrible) as long as you don't remove it but rather just report its location?

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Can you explain this a bit further? I assume it is perfectly OK to FIND a dead body in a cave (well, not OK in the BIG sense, it is freaky and horrible) as long as you don't remove it but rather just report its location?

They are specially trained and certified to do this. They are also like on scene detectives. They take all kinds of notes and preserve eveidence for topside investigation.

 

[Cave Diver]

Can you explain this a bit further? I assume it is perfectly OK to FIND a dead body in a cave (well, not OK in the BIG sense, it is freaky and horrible) as long as you don't remove it but rather just report its location?

Just like any crime or accident scene information must be preserved. Notes must me made on body location, gear configuration and a whole host of other issues. Gear should be checked and noted before the body is moved, etc. This needs to be done by someone who is trained to do it and knows the procedure to keep the chain of custody intact. If the body is found by a non ICURR diver, they would likely mark the location by attaching a reel to it for easy re-location by the recovery team.

Information on the IUCRR: http://www.iucrr.org/p_whoweare.htm

Here is some interesting stats: http://www.iucrr.org/fatalities.pdf

 

[Hetland]

is the FBI dive team qualified to dive this cave?


I'm still not sure why the FBI would be interested in a local death unless other circumstances are involved.

I've not seen any press or locals mentioning FBI, only family/friends, so I'm not certain there is FBI involvement. Maybe someone who has been on scene can confirm this?

FBI might have been the easiest agency to get cadaver dogs from. The family might have some political pull. I can't think of any other reason for them to be there, but there is a lot we don't know atm I'm sure.

 

[Crush]

is the FBI dive team qualified to dive this cave?


I'm still not sure why the FBI would be interested in a local death unless other circumstances are involved.

From Federal Bureau of Investigation - FBI Dive Team :

The team generally follows recreational diving limits, descending no deeper than 130 feet for non-decompression dives.​

This is not to say that they can't do it - this is unclear to me.

If I was on the FBI Underwater Search Evidence Response Team (USERT) crew down there (and I don't know if USERT is there or not) I would try to deputize an experienced cave diver. (this is a joke - no flames please).

 

[diverdoug1]

So at this point, where do people go from here?

So what now? Is it possible that sometime later on, his body may come dislodged from where ever it is and be retrivable?

Possible, but not probable. If this were to occur, it would not happen for another couple of weeks.

 

[divinsiren]

It's man made... Actively dug out... Correct. My dad has been instructing there for over 30 years as beginner ow training... The innerards that is.

 

[Rick Murchison]

It's man made... Actively dug out... Correct. My dad has been instructing there for over 30 years as beginner ow training.

"It" is the basin, the open water area.
The cave's been there for a long, long, long time...
Rick

 

[Divedoggie]

Too deep, too nasty and the risk/reward is very skewed to the risk side. Again, this is why they were there in the first place. No need to add to the body count.
I had planned to go in and Video the cave in July, but the trip fell through due to several factors. I'd still like to video it and post it, just so that others won't feel the need to dive it. It's not that pretty. Especially with a big old pipe running through it. Next time I do a weekend trip down, I'll bring the GoPro and video the thing to the last restriction, just so people understand what the system requires. You can see sand dust devils and bits of clay whipping about at the restrictions. Like I posted in the conditions report, not worth the effort and deco.

After re-watching the interview with the brother, Tim McDaniels, it sounds like a video might go a long way toward helping the family understand what it looks like down there, what the searchers saw, and why requesting more divers is not a good idea.
A video might help them have some closure.

 

[divinsiren]

"It" is the basin, the open water area.
The cave's been there for a long, long, long time...
Rick

thanks he just called to further explain it to me.