General Vortex Incident Discussion

[sabbath999]

Can't they get that little chick who squeezed through that tiny hole on one of the previous videos that Cave Diver posted...Man, that was crazy! Not for the faint of heart, nor the claustrophobic.

Taking nothing away from Ag, keep in mind how that was shot... to see her squeezing through that opening and show her face, that means the camera person had previously squeezed through that exact same restriction and then they had somehow gotten the camera through it as well, plus the lights, just to make that shot... and that the camera person had to be fighting that current you saw her battling with just to keep it steady.

My point is that, amazing as the video is (and it IS amazing), there is more than one person who could make it through that crack. I have met a couple of these men who have been working this recovery in person (I don't claim to KNOW any of them personally, just to have met them) and I have utter confidence in somebody like Edd's ability to get into any crack that is reasonable for a diver to get into.

If these folks say it is too tight or too dangerous, then it is.

 

[WeldonDowd]

Can someone post another link to this video where the girl squeezes through the tiny passage. I've searched through the thread again and can't find it. I'm using the Tapatalk app tonight and searching is tedious. Thanks....

 

[wess7777]

Can someone post another link to this video where the girl squeezes through the tiny passage. I've searched through the thread again and can't find it. I'm using the Tapatalk app tonight and searching is tedious. Thanks....

YouTube - Sidemount diving in Rock Bluff

 

[Docc]

Let's call it and if the guy is in there we'll have a silent moment for him at the Saturday Great Southern Luau. Or if he is in Rio, he can have a drink for us. Anyway - Let's let life go on......... Whether the dude is or is not the horse is dead so stop beating it.

The problem is the public has been duped by television. Shows like CSI where all the mysteries are wrapped up in a neat package in the last five minutes of the episode make us think that life is the same way...but it's not. I'm friends with some of Natalie Holloway's family. They're still dealing with her disappearance daily. Lack of closure, and that slim glimmer of hope that accompanies it, is a tough combination. I sympathize with the family and friends of this diver who need closure as they mourn their loss. But as is the case with the death of any one of our friends/family, life must go on for the rest of us.

 

[diverdoug1]

Milk gushes out of a punctured container, bodies decompose slowly. What was the rate of flow of the river (a measure of dilution) as compared to the rate of flow of milk out of the container? Were there any eddies that allowed the milk to be trapped and circulate?

I should stop now and respect my own "bandwidth" argument.

Putrescine and cadaverine can be detected after miles of travel in flowing water ( as evidenced by detection of a victim 2 miles downstream in a water fillled storm drain, during the Katrina recovery effort). These markers of decomposition travel well in an aqueous environment because they are frequently evolved off the cadaver emulsified in fat droplets (seen in highest concentration during skin autolysis and subsequent slippage of the epidermal layers). To answer mpetryk's question about "raging rivers", yes, cadaver dogs can flag downstream in ths situation. Many factors come in to play in how far the scent can carry (containment of water flow/ water temperature/rate of flow/degree of decomposition). In this situation, all factors are optimal for long distance of detection. The flow is totaly contained in the cave system, the flow is brisk, and skin slippage in 68 to 78 degree water peaks at 7-14 days.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Can't they get that little chick who squeezed through that tiny hole on one of the previous videos that Cave Diver posted...Man, that was crazy! Not for the faint of heart, nor the claustrophobic.

She's in Australia

 

[zebrax0r]

She's in Australia

Yes. We are a little crazy down here.

But on a very serious note, having just read this thread, and being very much still a novice diver, I've just started to come to grips with the depth, technicality, danger and extreme responsibility that this kind of diving entails.

Gosh. Healthy respect for this kind of thing needs to be understood quickly, and without any if's or but's. Even though I've only ever OW dived, it really makes me think all the more about the care, precaution and scenario play-outs one has to make before even thinking about getting in the water...

z

 

[Matt P]

The article writes:

Cadaver dogs indicated Monday the scent of a body below the surface of the water, but Ben McDaniel’s body has not been recovered.​

I am employed professionally in detecting chemical traces. The idea that dogs can detect a body where none is visible in hundreds of feet of tunnel with minimal flow is BS. This is not opinion, it is scientific fact.

I took a different impression from the article based on this line:

Dogs indicated the presence of a body under the water near one of the docks used by divers near the cave

I've never been to Vortex so I don't know what it looks like. But, the article says "near one of the docks." I imagine that to be outside of the cave in calm-ish water. I imagine it to be more akin to the pond scenario that was discussed and less likely to mean that the dogs had detected a scent from hundereds of feet into the tunnel.

Can anyone comment on the location of the docks and the surrounding water?

 

[Rick Murchison]

...Can anyone comment on the location of the docks and the surrounding water?

The dock the dog's on in the video is in the perfect position to get samples of water coming out of the cave. The center of the boil is only about 20 feet from the edge of the dock, so any chemicals coming out of the cave will be right on the surface at the edge of that dock.
Rick

 

[Cave Diver]

Can anyone comment on the location of the docks and the surrounding water?

Refer to this: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5438289-post53.html

Aerial view shows the location of the docks, spring run, and cave entrance.