Go No Farther - Cave Diving Dangers Warning Video

[The Chairman]

I've seen lots of things done badly for our community, both cave and diving in general. While I might appreciate the energy, I'm not afraid to call a spade an FN shovel. I would rather not see them waste their time on a boondoggle, but to use their talents effectively. To be sure, before I had even seen this thread I had called one of the principles and told them explicitly what I thought and why. I even sent them a link to this thread because it was apparent I wasn't the only who felt this way. Cavers can be blunt and often are. It's because the environment does not suffer fools for long. It's not a matter of hating, but rather one of high expectations. I don't think anyone suggested that the video "sucked". We've been very constructive in our criticisms of what we thought did and didn't work. There was no real animosity displayed.

 

[Captain Flux]

I completely disagree. The individuals in this film are widely known in north Florida. It's not constructive criticism when everyone is just saying actors are trash and product placement is vivid. It costs time and money to make all these little videos no matter how small. The people that assisted were very generous in their contributions so spotlight is actually kind of nice.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

FWIW, compared to some of the agency-produced training vids I've seen over the years, the acting in this one wasn't all that bad. And they're giving it away for free, as opposed to what some of those training vids I mentioned have cost. I think I'm with Elizabeth on this one ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Patoux01]

Funny reactions...

 

[kr2y5]

IMO, blunt feedback can be OK as long as it's constructive and actionable. For example, instead of "it's too long", "it's suboptimal", etc., better say "scenes X and Y could be shortened to keep the audience more focused", or "at 4:00 in the video, it would be a great time to signal the key takeaways, so the listener has them in mind while watching". That way, the video producers would feel supported in their efforts rather than criticized, everyone would feel like we're sitting at the same side of the table, and we'd actually refine the video to make it even better, thanks to the input from the community, and everyone would be happy. A lot can probably be improved just by careful editing of the content that's already in place.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

This thread has been moved so reference to special rules of old location have been removed. Appropriate discussion of the topic and reasonably constructive feedback on the video are acceptable bickering is not. Some posts have been deleted others edited. Please keep it on topic and polite or further action will be undertaken

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[MXGratefulDiver]

This open-water-non-overhead-trained diver's take on the video?

The two "open water" divers spent a LOT of energy working to make a dangerous looking silt-out. I don't know why they got into trouble. I don't know what happened to the younger diver (looked like he maybe had a medical emergency?).

The difference between this vid and the "Deceptively..." video is that the latter explains what's happening, why, and why the training is important.

What would be great is a video that covers overhead environments in general, and explains clearly why training in such environments is so important.

You're right that what went wrong is obvious to a cave diver, but perhaps not so obvious to one who hasn't been there. The energy you see being expended can easily occur in conditions where there's flow ... and not even a lot of flow, because the typical open water diver has only been trained to flutter kick, and that will leave a nasty silt trail in most caves I've been in. Once the silt starts, it takes a while ... sometimes quite a while ... for vis to clear up sufficiently to see more than a foot or two. In that situation, your gravest danger is losing the line ... and therefore any sense of how to exit. If that should happen, your chances of living are slim, because you cannot simply surface, and your life is measured by the amount of time it takes to use up your air. Compounding that problem is that in this situation the diver is likely to become stressed, or even panicked ... which leads to elevated air usage and a loss of reasoning ability. That reduces your already slim chances even further. I think that's what the video was trying to show ... the younger diver didn't have a medical emergency, he ran out of air ... and in those conditions it's unlikely you'll even be able to see your buddy to get to them.

The fact that you, as an open water diver, don't know ... or perhaps can't even imagine ... the kind of trouble you can get into inside a cave IS the takeaway lesson of the video. What you don't know can, in fact, hurt you ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[kelemvor]

You know, you guys have a lot of input for a video you never took place in building. These individuals took time away from their loved ones to make a public announcement for the community. Yes the acting is sub-par but they did it for the community, being a active PRODUCTIVE member.

Welcome to scubaboard!

 

[The Laconic]

"Why not make your last meal... Subway fresh?"

I'll pass over the few things I didn't like about the video (which aren't all that important anyway), and point out some things I thought it did well. It portrayed how innocent a "trust-me" dive can look from the inside. The kid knew enough to have some reservations about the dive, but the instructor/guide had plausible-sounding (if you didn't already know any better) responses.

I also like how it contrasted prepared and trained cave divers against unprepared and untrained divers. You see that there are differences in their equipment and the way they're preparing for the dive, but if you aren't already cave- or tech-trained, it might be hard to put your finger on all of them. Their decision not to explicitly point out the differences was wise; a laundry list of what you'd need for a save cave dive could send the wrong message.

OW courses don't tell you enough (or anything) about why overhead environments are dangerous. Until they do, I can't help but admit that videos like this are a Good Thing.