Got my OW cert, but SOB!

[maniago]

I don't want to appear to discount any of what ya'll are telling me, but let me just re-focus everyone that I'm a newbee, I'm seeing things from a newbee perspective. And like all newbees, just don't have the repeated skills to execute alot of what you are saying instantaneously. Yet I'm in the same (for argument sake) "peril" as you long toothers.

So specifically:

The long hose, S-maneuver-donation thing - forget it. That's a calm, collected effort of "ask and receive" - a higher-function learned effort from my perspective. Too much hose to stow, keep track of, worry about. Not to be dramatic, but its not executable in a near panic life or death situation. And that' s my frame of reference. Yes, I'll get better, calmer of course I will. Familiarity breeds a vigilant form of comfort. But I have to survive this tenuous period to get to where you are. Things need to be simple and innate.

The necklace, I have seen and looked into it before we OW'ed, but that too is a complication in my newbee-eyes. Why? Ripping a reg from a newbee buddy, might save one, but panic the unexpected donor - who then shoots to the surface. Now two in big trouble. Not going there.

Tracing - great one. Its on the list to practice. My buddy too. Alt Air source - you bet. Done.

Course Training - All I can say, is I think OW should be a whole lot longer, maybe 10 OW dives, and more rigorous than what I just went through. I think its flat dangerous - like a 16yr old let loose with a muscle car in the snow.

Good news is that as an old dude, I have a healthy appreciation for how ridiculously easy it is to die. I'll be a life-saving buddy for my buddy; but anal about trying to not have to rely on anyone else for my survival. Ya know what I mean?

Thanks for all the comments. I sure know what I'll be drilling myself on.

 

[CindyMac]

Although some divers look down on them because they tend to breathe a little hard, this is exactly the reason integrated inflator/second stages are popular: You can find it.

Even if you can't find your butt with both hands, you can always find your inflater because you're using it.

flots.

flots - thanks for the laugh of the day!! I now have an integrated second/inflator.

 

[Xitesmai]

The downside of integrated Octo/Inflators is the tendency to free-flow given certain diving conditions, and the inability to manually inflate the BC...its a tradeoff.

 

[dmoore19]

The downside of integrated Octo/Inflators is the tendency to free-flow given certain diving conditions, and the inability to manually inflate the BC...its a tradeoff.

 

[Xitesmai]

Let me see if I can clarify.

I have heard other divers complaining that integrated octo/inflators tend to freeflow more often than standard regs. Or the buttons get stuck on the integrated systems. As far as manual inflation I mean the following....A BC inflator manually by mouth is using gas that has already been consumed by the body. On an integrated system you are using tank air that never reaches the body, thus its wasted gas...albeit very little of it...but in an emergency every little bit helps.

 

[Them]

The long hose, S-maneuver-donation thing - forget it. That's a calm, collected effort of "ask and receive" - a higher-function learned effort from my perspective. Too much hose to stow, keep track of, worry about. Not to be dramatic, but its not executable in a near panic life or death situation. And that' s my frame of reference.

It's funny how different folks see things differently.

My frame of reference is that I got my OW cert 28 days ago. So I'm hardly a highly experienced diver....

My first/only reg set is long hose/necklace alternate. That's what I've been diving from "dive 5" (where the first 4 are the OW cert dives).

I chose it because it IS executable in a near panic life or death situation and I don't think the standard alternative air setup is. Specifically, during OW dives I saw both my buddy and myself fumble to find and present a reg for our buddies, or get the (short) hose routed in a way that made it unreachable to the buddy, or otherwise just fumbled. I had my alternate come out of the silicone loop keeper twice during the 4 ow dives. I believe that reaching up to the hose on the reg in my mouth is much easier. I inhale, I take it out, I offer it. Then I have 30 seconds to worry about the hose (which is really just tugging it out), my alternate (it's under my chin, I move it 4 inches, blow, and inhale), and work out the next steps to safely proceed.

You experienced a failure of the standard approach too, so you know the standard approach ain't great.

The necklace, I have seen and looked into it before we OW'ed, but that too is a complication in my newbee-eyes. Why? Ripping a reg from a newbee buddy, might save one, but panic the unexpected donor - who then shoots to the surface. Now two in big trouble. Not going there.

I think you have a misunderstanding about the necklace.

That reg is there for you. The way it works is your buddy signals OOA, you give them air, and then you take air from your alternate.

If there is any ripping of regs or unexpected donors, that's a problem completely independent of necklaces and can happen with any type of hose arrangement. And, as you found out, if your own reg is taken from your mouth unexpectedly it would be nice to have the alt right there read for you. Having your alt on a necklace would have made your event a total non-event.

 

[Diver0001]

How is the length of my primary hose in any way relevant here?

Because when you strap the octopus around your neck the result is that you'll need to hand off your primary in the event of an air-share situation. It can be done with a short hose but in my experience the hose is too short to do it comfortably.

Your post (and the op's post) got me thinking though. With a "standard" configuration, maybe it's a *better* idea to put your primary on a bungee instead so you still have the octopus (with the slightly longer hose) in the event of an air-share. That way, if the primary regulator gets put out of your mouth for some reason it won't go behind your shoulder where it can't be recovered quickly. Just a thought.

R..

---------- Post Merged at 08:01 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:55 PM ----------

I use a Pro QD BCD for recreational stuff with a standard reg set-up.

So do I. Admittedly mine is and old model but I find it bulky and heavy and in my case it doesn't have anything for holding the octopus. It's nice to know that they've improved the design though. I think you'll agree that more manufacturers should think of ways to make their BCD's "octopus friendly".

R..

 

[maniago]

The downside of integrated Octo/Inflators is the tendency to free-flow given certain diving conditions, and the inability to manually inflate the BC...its a tradeoff.

Ummm, so you cant breath into the dump port with the dump button depressed? Same as we do with a standard inflator? May not be pretty or easy, but seems like you ought to be able to. I'll report when mine arrives. On a similar note, I just tested and you can do it - blow air into your top air dump to inflate. So your buddy could do that on the surface (ie lost the boat and dead tank) or I suppose surface BCD remove, inflate and replace. Not pretty, but then again, necessity is the mother of invention...

---------- Post Merged at 02:24 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:12 PM ----------

@Them - I do get it that the necklace is only for yourself. That's my hang-up. That just doesn't seem survival friendly to me - that is to say, in standard config, both your reg and the octo are available to your buddy to take. In necklace, he/she's only got one choice and thats to compromise your breathing to save his skin. Then you have to save youre skin. One need creates two needs before resolution.

Ok I get you can do anything that you have the sense to execute properly. That's what drilling is for.

But seems to me that that combination is making the hard, harder. Maybe its just me - I just don't see the sense (cave situations not withstanding - I get in those confined cases).

 

[Slmason.72]

Maniago, Without some kind of notice, an OOA diver is going to find me pushing them away if they reach for my regs. Period. I am going to ensure my safety and not allow a panicked diver to wrap me up. Once I am clear of them the very next thing I am going to do it stuff my regulator into their face and grab my backup from (around neck, airsource, etc). To me, it's not the other persons choice what they get. I'm protecting myself first and by doing so, protecting my ability to help rescue them.

Yes, you were on your checkout dives. Given the situation you were faced with, you did not just an excellent job, but an incredible one. Some of the things said here are food for thought, some of them don't really apply. You soon see that most on this board over-dissect near misses. It's not to be critical of the person involved (well, yes some people are doing that... Welcome to the Internet) rather it's to learn from it through discussion and alternate points of view.

You can and should walk away from this thread with a few things you know you should work on, a good idea of several equipment variations that you should further research on your own, and the knowledge that when the chips were down, you didn't panic and reasoned through your options.

Now, let's go get wet.

 

[DukeAMO]

I would agree that, if your buddy is in a near-panic, they will probably go for your primary rather than your backup 2nd stage. It's way easier for them to find. They have to be calm to politely signal for your air and find the alternate. So it definitely behooves you to be ready to find your own backup octo quickly.

I've taken to routing my octo under my arm, with the hose tucked under a stiff bit of canvas, and back up to my chest. It's pretty secure in its little holder (the rubbery kind that the mouthpiece fits into), and it all comes right out when you pull on it. I don't think it's any less secure than a necklace; it's pretty similar, actually. I'll probably switch to the long/short hose combination some day, though. A lot of the divers we meet locally are actually GUE or technical divers, and they all use that setup, because it's so much easier to maneuver and solve problems when your buddy isn't glued to your side by the hose.

I wonder, though - if you have a long hose around your neck, and somebody not-too-politely grabs your primary out of your mouth, couldn't they basically pull the hose around your neck and make it difficult for you to get your backup correctly?

I've never tried switching back and forth between my own 2nd stages. That's a good idea - on the list for the next dive!