GUE and Sidemount position ?

[KevinNM]

Literally the only instructor I have seen students from (where I know who the instructor was) is Edd Sorenson in north Florida. And they looked very sharp. But there are a lot of great instructors elsewhere as well as many more in Florida. I just don't have enough experience to tell you who they are.

 

[tbone1004]

I didn't say it couldn't be done. I said it's not clearly done.

The only ones that standardized it AFAIK are UTD. Now I'm not sure you wanna talk about their system

Don't tell that to UTD, GSM, or Toddy... They have all standardized their systems, all three completely different, but all three are standardized.
That said, sidemount right now is no less standardized than backmount. Sure there is a "DIR" backmount doubles, but BSAC doesn't follow it, and there are a whole slew of alternate systems for single tank backmount, etc. There is also nothing that says evolution isn't possible, i.e GUE going from their SCR to the JJ.

@Darghu it depends on what kind of style sidemount you want to be doing and why. You have to find out what you want out of sidemount and what you need it for.
Is it for cave diving? If so, which style of cave diving? Sump? Cold water? Mexico?
Is it for OW? Wreck penetration, recreational OW, deep?
Do you need twin tank, or can you get by with single tank?
Is it a lifestyle choice/requirement mitigated by an injury?
Do you have dive buddies already diving sidemount that are passionate about a system for good reason?

Do you have a tie to GUE that makes you want to dive with them *i.e. buddies that are invested in GUE or specific projects you want to join*, or do you want to look at them because of the quality of their instruction and instructors?

Guys like @PfcAJ can better comment about GUE's current and future stances on sidemount. I know what they've looked at over the last few years, but have no idea where they're planning on going, if they're planning on going there. I can comment on specific sidemount stuff after you answer the questions above and may be able to help recommend an instructor or at least explain the pros and cons of some options that you can look at based on your area, but without those questions we are stabbing at ghosts

 

[Dave Bevan]

I think GUE try to train a thinking diver so if you feel like you need to go solo/sidemount or whatever (like UK cave diving for example) then you use the correct tool for the job.

However it doesn't really fit into their team diving philosophy so they won't teach it on a course. That said if you are using it for the correct purpose no one is going to come and rip your GUE patch off your drysuit and expel you from the order.

 

[PfcAJ]

Don't tell that to UTD, GSM, or Toddy... They have all standardized their systems, all three completely different, but all three are standardized.
That said, sidemount right now is no less standardized than backmount. Sure there is a "DIR" backmount doubles, but BSAC doesn't follow it, and there are a whole slew of alternate systems for single tank backmount, etc. There is also nothing that says evolution isn't possible, i.e GUE going from their SCR to the JJ.

@Darghu it depends on what kind of style sidemount you want to be doing and why. You have to find out what you want out of sidemount and what you need it for.
Is it for cave diving? If so, which style of cave diving? Sump? Cold water? Mexico?
Is it for OW? Wreck penetration, recreational OW, deep?
Do you need twin tank, or can you get by with single tank?
Is it a lifestyle choice/requirement mitigated by an injury?
Do you have dive buddies already diving sidemount that are passionate about a system for good reason?

Do you have a tie to GUE that makes you want to dive with them *i.e. buddies that are invested in GUE or specific projects you want to join*, or do you want to look at them because of the quality of their instruction and instructors?

Guys like @PfcAJ can better comment about GUE's current and future stances on sidemount. I know what they've looked at over the last few years, but have no idea where they're planning on going, if they're planning on going there. I can comment on specific sidemount stuff after you answer the questions above and may be able to help recommend an instructor or at least explain the pros and cons of some options that you can look at based on your area, but without those questions we are stabbing at ghosts

*added a ccr. SCR is still in the lineup.

I think looking at SM as an add on thing post-cave 2 is reasonable, like cave survey or cave dpv. Anything else and I'm likely to say it's baloney.

 

[AJ]

I think GUE try to train a thinking diver so if you feel like you need to go solo/sidemount or whatever (like UK cave diving for example) then you use the correct tool for the job.

However it doesn't really fit into their team diving philosophy so they won't teach it on a course. That said if you are using it for the correct purpose no one is going to come and rip your GUE patch off your drysuit and expel you from the order.

Exactly, they don't care if you dive sidemount. However, it's not a GUE compatible dive if you do. But who cares about that? Just go dive and have fun.

The GUE system is imho only applicable in team diving with other GUE trained team members diving according to GUE procedures. Outside that you can dive according to GUE's standards and config if you want, but it's not GUE. GUE is a holistic system where every part fits in the system and it's certainly not just about gear config but much more.

 

[Darghu]

Thanks so much. I am on cell phone and I can't answer all your questions. But I will seriously sit down and think hard about anything. For now I am totally open minded and not close to any other way to dive or gear to rent to try out.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Well this can be interesting to know how UTD standardized Sidemount diving.

- Is it possible to use our Backmount' regulators for Sidemount diving ?
In that case there are not much to buy to standardize that - or I am totally wrong about it ?

If you search youTube for "UTD Z-system" you will find videos where the principle of a "DIR" side mount setup are discussed.

Like a LOT of "DIR" , theres a lot of flame and smoke and politics around the idea, I use the system and I love it but that's in MY diving situation with MY needs and MY preferences.

YMM, as always, V.

 

[_Ralph]

GUE doesn't have a wreck course, yet you see lots of GUE divers in and around wrecks ..... hmmm

If you require tools to accomplish a task, seek out those tools and instruction and go forth.


_R

 

[DA Aquamaster]

You could standardize it. Why not?

I didn't say it couldn't be done. I said it's not clearly done.

The only ones that standardized it AFAIK are UTD. Now I'm not sure you wanna talk about their system

A couple thoughts...

First, Halcyon has released the contour which at 50 pounds is a little big for true side mount dives, but I spoke with Orie Braun a week or so ago and took a look at their smaller side mount rig that is still being tweaked a bit. I liked what I saw but more importantly, my take away was there is actually an awful lot of agreement on what constitutes a good side mount rig, and a lot of agreement on what it needs to have to work well out of the box. There's also agreement that one rig sin't going to do everything, but the overall concepts are the same. That's actually major progress compared to things were 8-10 years ago, and for the most part the new rigs comping out today need a lot less work than those that came out just a few years ago. That's narrowing the range of what you're seeing in configurations a bit.

Hose length and hose routing are still the seal breaker issues, as they directly impact donation of gas. But there are a couple ways to address it that come close to a DIR approach and all it would take is an agency willing to pick one and run with it.

Second, I agree that conversations about the Z system tend to be interesting and fun to watch and that it's probably not the final answer in standardization.

I spoke with AG, at DEMA, probably about 6 or 7 years ago now, when he was just developing the UTD Z system. At that time, his primary goal was to provide a system for single tank money divers. He'd noted that divers were using a single reg on a single tank, making air sharing a reversion to buddy breathing. In that context, the system made sense - a single side mounted tank feeding a low pressure manifold below the neck with hoses for long hose, bungee back up, and inflator(s).

The tech possibilities were however obvious and he was working on that at the time. The deal breaker for me (and for AG) then was the fact that a single ruptured hose or free flowing second stage would render the whole system unusable after the inevitable total gas loss, and inline disconnects were only a partial solution. Over the next year or two, I watched as it developed and I watched as an isolator was incorporate to address the single point of failure issue. I saw some of the advantages, but I could just never get on board with it.

On the one hand it theoretically simplifies stage diving, in terms of just plugging tanks into one of the two input hoses, and using the primary regulator. However it also adds complexity in terms of gas switching, where all the knobs and inputs have to be correct, rather than doing a standard gas switch, where only a single tank and regulator are involved, and where the entire system can be visually verified from tank to second stage.

I also wasn't a fan of the QC6s needed, or that fact that a QD failure takes a tank out of play. Then there was the overall cost of setting everything up that way, and the issues it poses in mixed team diving where gas in your stage isn't going to be accessible to a team member lacking a input hose with a QC6.

It just wasn't workable. To be fair however, now that we are side mount CCR, we do borrow one of the concepts with our stages, which are configured with a QD to provide redundant diluent, but also a second stage for normal bail out use.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I have been told by GUE folks that internally they are trying to figure out a way to fit sidemount into their program, but have yet to do so successfully.

First, Halcyon has released the contour which at 50 pounds is a little big for true side mount dives,

Even for cold-water divers in dry suit?

Disclosure: I own one.