Hmm. there's nothing wrong in what tye1138 said. In technical diving (say TDI deco procedures), part of the training entails dealing with situations where dive plans can change in a heartbeat. Gas planning takes into account catastrophic failures. So that you can meet deco obligations in virtual (and physical) overhead environments. Many divers, including myself, carry wet notes with backup plans for when these events occur (and they will occur).
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Hmm. there's nothing wrong in what tye1138 said. In technical diving (say TDI deco procedures), part of the training entails dealing with situations where dive plans can change in a heartbeat. Gas planning takes into account catastrophic failures. So that you can meet deco obligations in virtual (and physical) overhead environments. Many divers, including myself, carry wet notes with backup plans for when these events occur (and they will occur).
Basking Ridge Diver
Contributor
bada3003 - All I would say is reread what he wrote - "Yes, with technical diving, spare bottles can mean the difference between life and
death. Especially in overhead, non-accessible environments where dive plans can change in a heartbeat." - There was no reference of Gas Management or Failures in the conversation. The rant was actually about how rec/"Solo Divers" don't need redundant air supplies because they don't save lives...
I happen to disagree with that attitude or philosophy that rec/Solo Divers are not responsible enough to carry a pony.
Basking Ridge Diver
Contributor
Good now... 
I don't disagree with anything you said. I did read most of the thread but didn't consider the concerns that tye1138 raised rants as I interpreted them differently. I did read someone getting a tad personal with tye1138 (that he's not a technical diver or something to that effect based on his posts) which prompted my comment about dive plans changing unexpectedly. Anyhow, my impression is that people aren't that far off from common ground on this topic, at least according to my reading of the various views.
drcolyn
Contributor
Dear dive_more
I see that you have the correct idea with the pony size - I was just worried that you were referring those alternative air sources which looks like kitchen fire extinguishers in aerosol cans. I am not at all happy with the false security that those things give and wish legislation will require the manufacturers to state the limitations more clearly for the benefit of casual scuba divers.
With regards to the debate about to pony or not to pony – it is like the debate about not requiring a spare mask on “shallow” dives.
If the extra equipment does not add a task loading problem for you I cannot understand why someone else (who will not be there to rescue you) would want to talk you out of using it.
Being prepared for every eventuality is what the solo diver should strive for although I agree that common sense when planning a solo dive is still essential equipment (and it’s free)
I see that you have the correct idea with the pony size - I was just worried that you were referring those alternative air sources which looks like kitchen fire extinguishers in aerosol cans. I am not at all happy with the false security that those things give and wish legislation will require the manufacturers to state the limitations more clearly for the benefit of casual scuba divers.
With regards to the debate about to pony or not to pony – it is like the debate about not requiring a spare mask on “shallow” dives.
If the extra equipment does not add a task loading problem for you I cannot understand why someone else (who will not be there to rescue you) would want to talk you out of using it.
Being prepared for every eventuality is what the solo diver should strive for although I agree that common sense when planning a solo dive is still essential equipment (and it’s free)
I do not think anybody or at least me is trying to talk anyone out of a spare mask, spare fins, spare tanks, five spare regulators. By all means, take everything that YOU think you need. However, be prepared to understand that other people, including me, are also going to take exactly what I/they think is needed and it might be a whole lot less, substantially less, that what you or others might consider needed, by them, for them.
N
drcolyn
Contributor
I also started going solo with minimal equipment (due to circumstances) but I am not proud of taking that risk and I will definately not post the details about it here in case some new solo diver gets the idea to do the same.
If I could have read these posts 17 years ago I would have done a lot of things differently a lot sooner.
As Nuno Gomez always said: There are a lot of brave divers and a lot of old divers but not many brave old divers.
If I could have read these posts 17 years ago I would have done a lot of things differently a lot sooner.
As Nuno Gomez always said: There are a lot of brave divers and a lot of old divers but not many brave old divers.
Ana
.
I've been away for a while but I see things don't change much around here, it's almost pleasant.
This last post indicating that one may be "proud" of using certain configuration seems confusing to me. Typically old timers end up defending and justifying their ways of diving, but I don't think we are "proud" of taking risks, we are not taking risks. We are using the proper tool for the task, and only taking with us what we need.
Think of a simple flat-head screw. Look at the demographics when it comes to find the proper tool for a screw: who looks for the power tool, a simple screwdriver, or whatever is handy (coin, knife, other). The end result may appear the same but different groups of people may have strong opinions about their choices. I know I do... kinda sick of seeing buggered-up heads on screws.
So last week I did a few solo dives, my husband did too. We would rather dive together but years ago decided that leaving the boat empty is not a good option, so "one up - one down" has become our typical style, unless we can bring someone for the day. I didn't take any gear that I don't take when I dive with him, and there was no risk involved either. Normal warm water dives to about 80', my only redundant gear is a small inflatable matt attached to a 50' line I have always tucked inside the backplate. So if the line or float on my flag fails, I do have a way to signal my husband in the boat, where I'll be surfacing. That's just a legacy from my dive charter times (just feels comfy in the back). We follow the bubbles as much as we follow the flag while operating the boat, so that secondary marker won't change things that much.
Maybe we started diving with very little gear due to limited finances, but it doesn't automatically translates into high risk. And throwing gear to a diver doesn't automatically make him safer, just like having a Spartan set-up doesn't make you unsafe.
We divers need to realize that different people have different approaches, we can't judge based on our personal ways. You need redudant gas? or redudant anything? then make sure you have it, but don't judge me if I don't want it, ....if you HAVE to judge, at least don't tell me about it.
I wonder if most of the posts in here are just the result of people being bored, does the OP really want a blessing from the board to go solo diving? or just to have a conversation about I do this, and you do that, why not this instead?
For the record as much as I enjoy solo diving, lately I cherish the few times I get to dive with my husband, or the few friends I have. I'm not a true "dive-buddy" because I need my personal space but is cool to share some findings or team up for hunting.
This last post indicating that one may be "proud" of using certain configuration seems confusing to me. Typically old timers end up defending and justifying their ways of diving, but I don't think we are "proud" of taking risks, we are not taking risks. We are using the proper tool for the task, and only taking with us what we need.
Think of a simple flat-head screw. Look at the demographics when it comes to find the proper tool for a screw: who looks for the power tool, a simple screwdriver, or whatever is handy (coin, knife, other). The end result may appear the same but different groups of people may have strong opinions about their choices. I know I do... kinda sick of seeing buggered-up heads on screws.
So last week I did a few solo dives, my husband did too. We would rather dive together but years ago decided that leaving the boat empty is not a good option, so "one up - one down" has become our typical style, unless we can bring someone for the day. I didn't take any gear that I don't take when I dive with him, and there was no risk involved either. Normal warm water dives to about 80', my only redundant gear is a small inflatable matt attached to a 50' line I have always tucked inside the backplate. So if the line or float on my flag fails, I do have a way to signal my husband in the boat, where I'll be surfacing. That's just a legacy from my dive charter times (just feels comfy in the back). We follow the bubbles as much as we follow the flag while operating the boat, so that secondary marker won't change things that much.
Maybe we started diving with very little gear due to limited finances, but it doesn't automatically translates into high risk. And throwing gear to a diver doesn't automatically make him safer, just like having a Spartan set-up doesn't make you unsafe.
We divers need to realize that different people have different approaches, we can't judge based on our personal ways. You need redudant gas? or redudant anything? then make sure you have it, but don't judge me if I don't want it, ....if you HAVE to judge, at least don't tell me about it.
I wonder if most of the posts in here are just the result of people being bored, does the OP really want a blessing from the board to go solo diving? or just to have a conversation about I do this, and you do that, why not this instead?
For the record as much as I enjoy solo diving, lately I cherish the few times I get to dive with my husband, or the few friends I have. I'm not a true "dive-buddy" because I need my personal space but is cool to share some findings or team up for hunting.
It seems this thread equates, as do many, increased risk with reduced equipment loads. The REQUIRED equipment (MEL) for a dive or diver is variable, it is not fixed. While some divers may adhere to a a GUE like MEL that is standard for all dives, there are many who do not. There is no evidence to substantiate the idea that having multiple masks, for example, increases safety.
Assuming no overhead including soft overhead (deco) and wet diving and therefore can safely end the dive at any point, I try to prioritize something like this, all assuming there is a DIVE PLAN;
I. The primary redundant requirements:
1. systems-air supply
2. entanglement
II. The secondary redundant requirements:
1. vision
2. propulsion
3. illumination
4. instrumentation/measurement (spg, timer, depth, compass etc.)
5. buoyancy
III. Variables:
Depth
Current
Night/Day
Visibility
Hazards or likely potential for entanglement
IV. Other:
Familiarity with the dive site
Fitness
Experience
fauna/flora, i.e. critters
Each individual can make their own lists to evaluate each dive, I do not have a "check list" that I carry, I run through this mentally when PLANNING a dive in advance. How you as a diver and especially a solo diver meet these criteria is up to you but in some way each should be met. An example, for me, as a fairly capable free diver, having my regulator go TU on a 30 foot reef dive in 100 foot visibility, low hazard environ, well, this just does not substantiate the need for me to carry an alternate air supply because the surface is my redundancy and satisfies that requirement. My critical depth for carrying a system/air supply redundancy is variable but typically anything below 60 feet.
If I go into overhead and deco or move from wet to dry then my categories start to shift, for example, buoyancy becomes a primary consideration. Simply put, as a minimalist diver, I always satisfy these requirements, I may not however satisfy them by lugging additional equipment, I may instead, frankly, satisfy them with fitness, knowledge, skill, physical capability.
Or, you can just always carry or require every possible thing, for every possible scenario for the most complex dive you will ever undertake on each and EVERY dive, this does seem to be the rule nowadays, universal redundancy.
It is easy, and yes fun, to go down to the retail dive equipment store or look up Amazon and buy equipment. Nobody ever talks about fitness, how is that not in need of the same level of redundancy? Once you have expended everything, can you reach down inside and grab some more? For me that is a requirement and I fitness train to dive. For most it is not a requirement and they subconsciously layer themselves, like a hermit crab, with equipment to make up for the, what should be obvious, deficinecy.
Looking forward to the day that I can go to Amazon and order physical fitness or scan a bar code for stamina, or pop a pill for, uh, well, you know, but until that day, I must train and y'all best too.
N
Assuming no overhead including soft overhead (deco) and wet diving and therefore can safely end the dive at any point, I try to prioritize something like this, all assuming there is a DIVE PLAN;
I. The primary redundant requirements:
1. systems-air supply
2. entanglement
II. The secondary redundant requirements:
1. vision
2. propulsion
3. illumination
4. instrumentation/measurement (spg, timer, depth, compass etc.)
5. buoyancy
III. Variables:
Depth
Current
Night/Day
Visibility
Hazards or likely potential for entanglement
IV. Other:
Familiarity with the dive site
Fitness
Experience
fauna/flora, i.e. critters
Each individual can make their own lists to evaluate each dive, I do not have a "check list" that I carry, I run through this mentally when PLANNING a dive in advance. How you as a diver and especially a solo diver meet these criteria is up to you but in some way each should be met. An example, for me, as a fairly capable free diver, having my regulator go TU on a 30 foot reef dive in 100 foot visibility, low hazard environ, well, this just does not substantiate the need for me to carry an alternate air supply because the surface is my redundancy and satisfies that requirement. My critical depth for carrying a system/air supply redundancy is variable but typically anything below 60 feet.
If I go into overhead and deco or move from wet to dry then my categories start to shift, for example, buoyancy becomes a primary consideration. Simply put, as a minimalist diver, I always satisfy these requirements, I may not however satisfy them by lugging additional equipment, I may instead, frankly, satisfy them with fitness, knowledge, skill, physical capability.
Or, you can just always carry or require every possible thing, for every possible scenario for the most complex dive you will ever undertake on each and EVERY dive, this does seem to be the rule nowadays, universal redundancy.
It is easy, and yes fun, to go down to the retail dive equipment store or look up Amazon and buy equipment. Nobody ever talks about fitness, how is that not in need of the same level of redundancy? Once you have expended everything, can you reach down inside and grab some more? For me that is a requirement and I fitness train to dive. For most it is not a requirement and they subconsciously layer themselves, like a hermit crab, with equipment to make up for the, what should be obvious, deficinecy.
Looking forward to the day that I can go to Amazon and order physical fitness or scan a bar code for stamina, or pop a pill for, uh, well, you know, but until that day, I must train and y'all best too.
N
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