Herd Immunity in Indonesia

[DownUnderwater Dan]

is quite selfish don't you think?

I don't think selfish at all. I'M VERY TIRED OF THE WORD SELFISH IN REGARDS TO COVID. Here in oz, you were allowed to be on a packed bus or train, but not allowed to get sun at the beach. When people went to the beach, tabloids & the news splashed the word "SELFISH" in the headlines, & people like you talked to others how SELFISH those people were. This nonsense has happened repeatedly for the last few months

People in Indonesia are following their government, as soon as the government gives the OK, the people won't be looking back

 

[Indah]

I'm not sure where this idea of locking up "vulnerable" people in detention is coming from.
An example of herd mentality is group ostracising those who may have very valid points but doesn't conform to the current sentiment of others.

An uninfected woman in Australia was sentenced to 6 months jail for crossing a state border, there was no big uproar at the severity of her sentence because of the pack mentality towards covid control. Whereas someone else swindled millions off elderly widows and not serve a day in jail, go figure

Staying on Indonesia, the "vulnerable" have become even more "vulnerable" because of the shutdown of the greater economy

There's no greater time than now for innovation and ideas especially from the young generation in their 20's to make the quality of life return to some kind of normality

I recently became acquainted with an Indonesian student in her 20's here in oz, studying to become a doctor. There's no way I would tell her some of the arrogant comments people have made about Indonesian doctors just for the sake of receiving a few likes on a scuba forum. I know if she seen it, she would be deeply offended

117 doctors died until today because of Covid-19. They were active in their profession. Two possible conclusions, which I think both are correct, they did what they could to save the lives of their patients. And they did not really know what they were doing and which risks they took. Top down from the minister of health the policy and information was a disaster. We all wish for more doctors who are educated abroad. The old education system was corrupt inside out.

 

[Indah]

She was not allowed to self quarantine and she knew that, explicitly. She knew returning to WA required hotel quarantine and she bypassed that by sneaking back. Self-quarantine, bollocks, she was hiding because she knew the conditions of her permit. She appealed her sentence, she won, the court process worked. Magistrates and Federal circuit judges err often enough for the appellate courts to exist, this is a non-issue for me.

Australia is a federation, the PM has no authority over state borders, its only Albo that is too vacuous to realise it. I dont agree with the closures but neither my opinion nor ScoMo's matter. Border controls work without closure, that is how the three girls from Logan were caught visiting Melbourne, their false declarations and subsequent rounding up and testing averted a serious risk. One of the people they infected in the restaurant by dining out when infectious and symptomatic was an aged care worker. The controls is what caught them in their malicious avoidance.

The health departments are primarily managing the responses, so its massively risk averse, but at least they are qualified and intelligent. I'd be more concerned if the politicians were managing things, 97% lawyers and union hacks with a random scattering of morons, 3% miscellaneous.

I wasn't quoting percentages or trends. It's the anedoctal recovery time of an individual case. Can't recall where but Victoria somewhere. This is not a common cold. The way they treat patients, the drugs used and the timing, when they ventilate and the precise timing of when the flip patients on ventilators to prone, these are factors in the mortality rates.

The epidemiologistics will be studying this for a decade. Sweden might turn out to be geniuses, but they are not sure of that yet. It's a tiny and wealthy country with very strong social policies and high levels of personal responsibility, their response won't automatically transfer elsewhere.

Please compare Sweden with Denmark, Norway and Finland together. They did not well at all.

 

[Indah]

A logical step would be to put an emphasis on taking care of the vulnerable and throwing resources at keeping them protected, as opposed to restricting the freedom of the world's population

Totally agree.

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

117 doctors died until today because of Covid-19. They were active in their profession. Two possible conclusions, which I think both are correct, they did what they could to save the lives of their patients. And they did not really know what they were doing and which risks they took. Top down from the minister of health the policy and information was a disaster. We all wish for more doctors who are educated abroad. The old education system was corrupt inside out.

Two possible conclusions

3rd possible conclusion, those doctor's could of died of other causes whilst being infected with covid-19.

 

[Indah]

I would have gone last week if it was possible. The virus is for me no show stopper, I am not afraid of getting ill. I just see it is a minimal risk where driving a car is more dangerous.
But if I go, I want to have a normal holiday feeling, this means that I want to see Indonesia as it was, so freedom, no masks, just as it was, so wearing shoulders covered in tempels.

pcr testing is not trustable if you have no or only mild symptoms. Also that is known. Papaya's can also test positive.

For 2016 specifically, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) data shows 37,461 people were killed in 34,436 motor vehicle crashes, an average of 102 per day.

 

[Indah]

3rd possible conclusion, those doctor's could of died of other causes whilst being infected with covid-19.

But greatest chance is they would still be alive without covid. They were all active, working doctors.

 

[Indah]

Here they say 98 till 99.8% of the people have no symptoms. And all that people need to stop their lives just to save less than can be saved by an influenza vaccine? That is the point. The risk of getting a real problem with this virus is smaller than getting a car accident. That is the problem.
I agree with @DownUnderwater Dan , most don't have symptoms, and all that people need to stop their lives? That is the strange thing in this. Let everybody decided for themselves. In a flu epidemic, people that are in a riskgroup will take measurements themselves. So don't visit things, ask people not to come. But now everybody is limited in their life and that is the bad thing. There is no future now for people who are in their best days of life. You cannot make plans.
This affects really the diving industry, that is based on people travelling around the world.
It is also based on people who have the money to dive. If countries make their taxes or insurances higher, then people cannot travel anymore. Also if this takes too long, people who are interested in diving will loose their interest and others will getting other health problems they have to quit. You cannot make advertisements to sell courses now. And you need to restart your business from almost zero if you ever can start again.

Netherlands: In 2019 661 died in traffic accidents in 2019. Covid victims 6.279. But excess mortality much higher.

 

[Indah]

Where did you find this number of 92%

Thanks, saw the link now.

 

[Indah]

Fair enough

A lot of experts around the world have different views

92% Covid patients in India are asymptomatic, Health Minister Harsh Vardhan tells Lok Sabha

In India at the moment, it's 92% asymptomatic. In the UK it's 80% asymptomatic. The WHO put it at around 80% in one of their studies.

Not true from the article: New Delhi: In India, 92 per cent of Covid-19 patients got only a mild form of the disease, Health Minister Dr Harsh Vardhan told the Lok Sabha Monday on the opening day of the.....