Herd Immunity in Indonesia

[ToneNQ]

My point is very simple: live with it.
The effectiveness of any vaccine is "unknown".
Eradicate is a pretty strong word to deal with virus.
This virus is a survivor!

Eradicate is a strong word, but there is a clear difference between eradicating a virus and eradicating a vector. Polio is one that almost no one in this country in my generation has any personal experience. Yet my parent's generation saw it occasionally among their peers and regularly among their parents. People caught as a child and had the debilitating effects for the rest of their life, the impaired movement was apparently quite identifiable. Polio still exists but it a major medical event if someone actually gets it. Same with small pox, the virus still exists.

A virus is a survivor, there are some interesting theories on that very fact, all of them well beyond my ability to understand but fascinating to listen to. I could not do them justice to try and repeat them, but it seems certain that viruses exist to survive.

 

[ToneNQ]

What do you mean by “vectors”?

The core definition of a vector, if I remember my Despicable Me quotes, is any quantity with direction and magnitude.

A vector, which regards to viruses, is how it infects the healthy cell to then take over the cell and reproduce. There appears to be a looser use of the word to also include how the virus moves through the population.

 

[Centrals]

Polio outbreaks in Africa caused by mutation of strain in vaccine

 

[Luko]

Same with small pox, the virus still exists.

You mean it still exists only in 2 research labs? There is no evidence that the smallpox virus still exists in the natural environment, while on the contrary polio virus is endemic to certains countries.

 

[CT-Rich]

I have not bothered reading this thread, but I did immunology research in an earlier life.

First, herd immunity is the goal of immunization programs, not a strategy. The idea is that so many people have acquired immunization that the few people who, for what ever reason, cannot be immunized Are unlikely to be exposed.

Herd immunity did not stop polio, small pox, TB, common cold, Ebola or any other disease. There is a natural background level of diseases in a population, where people who survive the infection are immune and cannot pass it on. To get there a lot of people have to get sick and many will die. Most (90%) Native Americans were killed when European diseases reached the Americas because they lacked any immunity to those introduced diseases. Europeans were more immune than the indigenous people, but it didn’t stop them from becoming infected and some dying.

If you are traveling into a country and you are not immunized, you are just asking Mr Darwin to thin you out of the herd. Waiting for Darwin to solve the Covid crisis is not realistic.

 

[tursiops]

I have not bothered reading this thread, but I did immunology research in an earlier life.

First, herd immunity is the goal of immunization programs, not a strategy. The idea is that so many people have acquired immunization that the few people who, for what ever reason, cannot be immunized Are unlikely to be exposed.

Herd immunity did not stop polio, small pox, TB, common cold, Ebola or any other disease. There is a natural background level of diseases in a population, where people who survive the infection are immune and cannot pass it on. To get there a lot of people have to get sick and many will die. Most (90%) Native Americans were killed when European diseases reached the Americas because they lacked any immunity to those introduced diseases. Europeans were more immune than the indigenous people, but it didn’t stop them from becoming infected and some dying.

If you are traveling into a country and you are not immunized, you are just asking Mr Darwin to thin you out of the herd. Waiting for Darwin to solve the Covid crisis is not realistic.

I wish there were a way to put all those who say "covid is a hoax" or "you can't make me wear a mask" at the bottom of the priority list for an immunization when they become available. Seems only fair.

 

[broncobowsher]

And in the end the world population curve won't even dip from this. Maybe a tiny squiggle in the line if there is enough resolution in the data.

 

[CT-Rich]

And in the end the world population curve won't even dip from this. Maybe a tiny squiggle in the line if there is enough resolution in the data.

It wouldn’t matter unless it was you or your family that were dying. People watch Ebola outbreaks in Africa not because they are worried about Africans, but because they are worried it gets to their home.

 

[tursiops]

And in the end the world population curve won't even dip from this. Maybe a tiny squiggle in the line if there is enough resolution in the data.

LOL. OK, you win. I'll add those who say the deaths don't matter to those at the bottom of the list of those begging for immunizations.

 

[lexvil]

LOL. OK, you win. I'll add those who say the deaths don't matter to those at the bottom of the list of those begging for immunizations.

You’re very generous, I would like to allow them to sign off now for any outside funding for any and all medical care.