Hold on Wait a Minute

[GDI]

OK I know that many of you new divers want to get into scuba in a big way. Many of you go out and buy equipment thinking it will get you involved in the sport and committed to diving. OK many LDS will not like what I have to say here , because they make their money on equipment sales. But My advice is wait. First of all wait until you complete the basic course.

It is true that if you own your own equipment, you will become more involved in the sport of scuba and dive more frequently. What I suggest is that you do your basic course and THEN start looking at equipment purchases.

If you really want to save money find the equipment that will best suit the type of diving you want to do. This way you are not always spending money on the next best thing. Scuba equipment can last a long time and it is important that you buy only what is needed to meet your needs and not what is pushed on you or what is really unnecessary only to be pushed aside because you no longer would use it. Sometimes rent or loan before buy is possible check into this at your LDS

If you are looking at just doing basic scuba and diving on vacation trips, all you really need is basic equipment ( mask, snorkel, fins, booties and a small gear bag) You can rent as needed as you travel.

If you are doing more then just the vacation type of diving then get the wetsuit, BCD and reg that fits into your budget and is comfortable and affordable for you to enjoy the sport.

Now , The items such as surface marking devices and dive lights are great as gifts and yes I would say get these items for safety if for nothing else, even before buying the wetsuit, bcd and reg, (even for those one time a year vacation divers). A cylinder is the last thing you should ever buy as they cost little to rent.

If you are looking at getting into diving in a more serious way and willing to make those local dives or more advanced dives, then at the least talk to the local divers and see what works best in the local environment OR think about the type of diving that you want to get into and start to build your dive equipment towards that goal. This will save you big $$ in the long run.

There are some dive shops who do not like to see me come through their front door with a student, there are others who welcome me because I always help them get the customer satisfaction and continued business they desire.

Its ok to have more then one type of equipment configuration ( rec to tech) but there are ways to save money and enjoy the sport regardless of the type of diving you desire to learn and do. An instructor and good dive shop will help you get what you really need with the ability to expand and build upon if required right from the start.

Buying scuba equipment can be a case of buyer beware. As an example one LDS sold a student a bcd without the LP inflator hose included. They charged the cost of the hose to the purchase of the reg unit as a needed item. This is wrong as the LP hose is included in the BCD and should be attached to the reg 1st stage as a customer service courtesy. The reg comes only with the 1st and 2nd stage hose connecting them, the additional package should include a SPG, depth gauge/computer and a alternate 2nd stage with hose, the LP hose comes from the purchase of the BCD.

A shop tech should assemble these items as part of the sale and connect the LP hose for the bcd to the 1st stage of the reg. You get the idea.

I agree that a LDS needs to survive and must make equipment sales, you should shop to support your LDS, but there is a good and a not so good way to do business.

As a footnote: to this post:
I am a instructor who makes his living teaching scuba, I do not make it selling equipment, I own a diving school not a dive shop

 

[TONY CHANEY]

Spot on GDI. We have a shop in my local area that sold the entire doubles, BP and wing with all the bells and extra stuff to a diver that was just enrolling in an open water class. When the husband saw the gear and the price the shop owner only offered a store credit! I knew an instructor that took over the program in Okinawa...long gone now thank God. He was talking to us regular divers how his old shop sold divers the the Air 2 (nothing wrong with the Air 2 but not my liking) and would charge the diver the device and would keep the second stage hose and use it to sell to other divers during repairs. Etc, etc. I try to steer new divers as to what them need and not what I would want to sell. I have a good relationship with the dive shops I visit. I spend my personnel time with customers while my tanks are getting filled. To me the most important item of scuba is the mask and I spend a lot of times talking about them. Plain and clear, if you can't see then nothing else will go well! Glad to see that I am not the only one not taking advantage of new divers. Now if the diver is set upon something, I give them the facts but will not talk them out of it. I find that the customer feels belittled and will take their money else where. Just my 2 cents worth. More flies with honey kind of thing. Also, I will tell new divers, if you give me a few minutes I can save you a lot of money because God knows I have made so many mistakes in the past. (A quote from my father and my he rest in peace). I just want divers to have the great experience that I have.

 

[halocline]

I am an instructor who makes his living teaching scuba, I do not make it selling equipment, I own a diving school not a diving shop.

Eventually this should be the model for dive instruction; it is in some dive destination areas. As long as scuba instruction is primarily a way to sell gear, it will never be uniformly high quality.

Regarding your post, if you would consider using paragraphs it would be MUCH easier to read.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I completely agree that an OW student is best served by purchasing only the "personal gear" required for the class, and holding off on the big purchases until they've developed some sort of context for deciding what type of equipment is right for them. Otherwise, the risk of making purchases you'll regret in a few months is very high.

But, for what it's worth, a lot of dive shops will tell you the same thing. Not all of them are into fleecing their customers ... although some certainly are.

Like GDI, I'm an independent instructor who does not push gear sales. I have good relationships with several local shops, because I can trust sending my students to them knowing that they'll not "upsell" them equipment they know is inappropriate to their needs. There are other shops in my area who I will not recommend to my students, because I know they'll just try to sell them whatever they can make the most profit from.

There's nothing wrong with a dive shop making profit ... it's in the best interests of everyone on a local community to help keep their local dive shops healthy. On the other hand, those who put the needs of their customers first will win my business and recommendations every time.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[LowDrag]

As a newer diver of <20 dives, I couldn't agree more, to a point. I was put in a back inflate BC and crappy reg's for my OW. My first experience with a back inflate sucked bad enough that I "thought" I wanted a jacket style BC. After finishing OW in that jacket and doing a few other dives a friend let me try out his BP&W. It was so comfortable that I was instantly sold on the wing setup.
If...I had an instructor that would do as you gentleman have said you prefer to do then I would have probably gone with the BP&W setup right out of the door. I did buy my own gear to do OW with (my second attempt/long story) and was far more comfortable than the first time. I now have a BC for myself and my wife that I have to try and sell that will not bring in anything close to what we paid for them.
My advice to new/newer divers that have not bought their own gear yet would be this... One find an instructor that you LIKE. It really sucks to have to deal with an instructor that is not friendly and has an ego...trust me I am there currently. After this class I have paid for is complete I know who I will be contacting for my next class when I am ready. Two, find an instructor like the ones above that will help you find the gear that is right for you and not try to sell you a bunch gear that is not right for the type of diving you want to do. For me, I knew I was going to dive local more than abroad so I wanted to set up my gear for local. The hard part was not knowing what was the right choice.

Good luck to all new/newer divers...

LowDrag

 

[fjpatrum]

And all of that is why I buy (and recommend buying) used gear. Plus, I'm a cheap bastard with a whole lot of other interests competing for my money.

Good advice GDI.

In the end, it comes down to doing research whether you buy gear before OW, right after, or 1000 dives later.

 

[Doc]

No matter what, we'll still be seeing new camera gear on Open Water Dive #2.

 

[LowDrag]

No matter what, we'll still be seeing new camera gear on Open Water Dive #2.

I asked if I could strap on my GoPro but after dive one was VERY glad that I did not. There was so much, or so it seemed, going on that it would have been a problem.

 

[JanR]

Eventually this should be the model for dive instruction; it is in some dive destination areas. As long as scuba instruction is primarily a way to sell gear, it will never be uniformly high quality.

i never thought about it, but this is probably why my OW experience was so dissimilar to many stories I've heard. My wife and I certified on the Paul Gauguin in Tahiti. There was a dive operation on-board but there was no selling of dive equipment...even our snorkel, mask, and fins were provided for the class. The instruction was great...even if I didn't make the best student. Instead of a rush to get everyone through the course, it was a week of training with each evening before dinner consisting of a 30 to 45-minute huddle (beyond the actual classroom instruction) where our instructor would again go over lessons learned from that day's dive, but go over what we would be doing the next day. When i struggled with mask clearing, it was no problem to have another pool session with no thought to added expense (there was none) or not being part of the package. It was fully about teaching us how to be (in the words of our instructor) "the best diver."

i understand that sales are a large part of the business model of a typical LDS. However, it is interesting to compare what can be achieved when the single purpose is to produce good, safe divers.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

GDI presents excellent considerations to bear in mind as one makes a purchase of the first diving gear, but it is no the only perspective. GDI is not wrong, nor is he right as to the timing of a purchase. I was fortunate to deal with a reputable shop ( most are) and bought gear before my first class. I did the same for my wife, and do not regret with purchase. The considerations of the kind of diving you will do, and how much of it, are of course correct in gear selection and a reputable shop can help you make the proper selection. But I am not everyone, and there are those who had a bad experience with gear purchase. I just want to add to this conversation by saying learning to dive in quality equipment fitted to me personally was a pleasure, as it was for Debbie. Not everyone who certifies is ready to spend $1800 or 2400 to get properly outfitted, I understand. However, as you plan whatever you plan to do , do "presume" the dive center doesn't care and just wants your money. Some may be that way, but most, the vast majority, are looking for life time customers, and will be a great asset in the purchase process. As to used vs new gear, I have posted a lot on that. I caution against buying used equipment unless it is a face to face transaction and the seller can document use history maintenance history, AND i have a chance to have a good tech check out the equipment before purchase. Just a thought.
DivemasterDennis