Hopping my way to full cave...

[rddvet]

This was actually a hot topic of discussion after Reggie's memorial service when the divers went out to raise a beer in his memory. The discussion included a number of the living legends and most prominent instructors in the field. I was mostly in another conversation, but what I was catching what that (1) they agree that it's a philosophical problem with the rules, but (2) it seems to be a well-established exception.

It seems possible to rules-lawyer the issue by thinking of the dive in legs. Leg #1 is going in through the Ear, dropping bottles, heading out, and returning to the same spot - you're now at a verified exit. You check your gas consumption and recalculate thirds for a linear/reciprocal trip. You now embark on Leg #2 prepared to return to the Ear if need be, but can also exercise the option to exit at the Eye.

I’ve been told the reasons why its considered “acceptable” and I’m on the side that disagrees. Its my belief that in a class the instructor should be setting a good example for the student. Showing them a way around the always verify your exit rule isnt a good example. Especially considering the recent death in manatee. On top of that the op said they pulled the reel from the ear then exited. They now have no continuous guideline. If they left the reel then exited the eye then maybe its a little more ok. Add to that the example yesterday in mexico where a Caribbean earthquake made some crazy conditions of severe water elevation shofts (supposedly up to 10 ft) and random siltouts similar to a collapse. An instructor should take those two examples and explain you never know what the hell can happen outside of your control and ensure they teach something universally acceptable. If yesterday in mexico you planned to exit a different cenote than the entrance and those tidal shifts ocurrer, you could be in for trouble with an unverified exit, especially if you pulled your primary.

I am in no way an instructor and do agree that the practice is likely very safe 99.99999% of the time. But in a course, the instructor has to set a good example.

 

[rjack321]

On top of that the op said they pulled the reel from the ear then exited. They now have no continuous guideline. If they left the reel then exited the eye then maybe its a little more ok.

How do you do this? Isn't the primary tie up on the log? If you have to go all the way up to 20ft and the log, why return minus the line all the way back to the sign before exiting the eye with no line at all?

 

[rddvet]

How do you do this? Isn't the primary tie up on the log? If you have to go all the way up to 20ft and the log, why return minus the line all the way back to the sign before exiting the eye with no line at all?

In my recent ccr crossover we were shown where to put the primary tie off very close to the entrance of the chute. So theoretically its close enough that you could pull the reel (hands sticking in ow, body in cavern/cave), then turn around and be back in the cave. The op said they pulled the reel then then exited via the eye. So i assume thats what they did but it seems silly to go so close to ow to pull the reel then exit the eye.

 

[Manatee Diver]

How do you do this? Isn't the primary tie up on the log? If you have to go all the way up to 20ft and the log, why return minus the line all the way back to the sign before exiting the eye with no line at all?

This is kind of hard to describe. There are two schools of thought, one is to tie off in open water, so you tie in the chimney. The other school of thought is that due to the flow you tie off just inside the cave after you pulled yourself out of the flow. On the right hand side by the sand there is a collection of tie off points that Reggie likes to use, and Chris/Renee/David (another instructor intern that I dove with in the dives I still have to write up) had no issues with.

I was told explicitly that you don't tie off onto the log in the ear. I think you are probably confusing it with the eye, there is a log on the edge of the cavern zone, where I've seen some people tie off their primary reel before the ran the gold line all the way into the cavern zone.

 

[rjack321]

This is kind of hard to describe. There are two schools of thought, one is to tie off in open water, so you tie in the chimney. The other school of thought is that due to the flow you tie off just inside the cave after you pulled yourself out of the flow. On the right hand side by the sand there is a collection of tie off points that Reggie likes to use, and Chris/Renee/David (another instructor intern that I dove with in the dives I still have to write up) had no issues with.

I was told explicitly that you don't tie off onto the log in the ear. I think you are probably confusing it with the eye, there is a log on the edge of the cavern zone, where I've seen some people tie off their primary reel before the ran the gold line all the way into the cavern zone.

Doesn't the ear have a log going across the chimney with a chain wrapped around it? Why would you not use that as a primary tie? The end of the log is right up against the wall and forms a perfect closed station. There's then tons of room for another primary on the other wall plus more a little lower.

I have to admit the only time I went in there was on a scooter and we didn't run a primary... So do as I say not as I do lol

 

[helodriver87]

Doesn't the ear have a log going across the chimney with a chain wrapped around it? Why would you not use that as a primary tie? The end of the log is right up against the wall and forms a perfect closed station. There's then tons of room for another primary on the other wall plus more a little lower.

I have to admit the only time I went in there was on a scooter and we didn't run a primary... So do as I say not as I do lol

There are some good closed tie offs below the log at 30'. Running it from the log clutters the ear up unless you tie it off straight down at 30', so you might as well start there. Personally, I know that the line in the eye runs to a stone's throw from the door and it's about as close to the door in the ear. If I get lost between the ear and the gold line or between the end of the gold line at the eye and the exit, with over a hundred dives in the system, I deserve whatever I have coming to me. But that's not how a course should be taught.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Doesn't the ear have a log going across the chimney with a chain wrapped around it? Why would you not use that as a primary tie? The end of the log is right up against the wall and forms a perfect closed station. There's then tons of room for another primary on the other wall plus more a little lower.

The reason I was given is due to entanglement while pulling yourself into and trying not to blown out of the ear. He also said that doing deco in the ear sucks.

I have to admit the only time I went in there was on a scooter and we didn't run a primary... So do as I say not as I do lol

You aren't the only one. I was told that Ginnie and Peacock I are special exceptions due to the amount of traffic that they see.

 

[rddvet]

Doesn't the ear have a log going across the chimney with a chain wrapped around it? Why would you not use that as a primary tie? The end of the log is right up against the wall and forms a perfect closed station. There's then tons of room for another primary on the other wall plus more a little lower.

I have to admit the only time I went in there was on a scooter and we didn't run a primary... So do as I say not as I do lol

What manateediver describes is close to what I was shown. In 8 years of cave diving my wife and I had never actually run a line into the ear until Ken's cave crossover class. We totally avoided it because it's a pain in the ass (at least the way we were originally shown). I was taught at one point to tie off near the log and go down. Problem is on the way out you're in heavy flow and it sucks. We dive Ginnie all the time, but like you, we scooter in the ear and out the eye with no line run. What Ken showed us is get totally negative and drop to the sand/rubble area right by the entrance. On the right there's a ton of tie offs. Our primary tie off was still in OW, whereas it sounds Manateediver was taught to start it inside the cavern. I think either is fine, but obviously outside the cavern is more "proper". Either way in my opinion, the ear is a pain in the ass unless there's a scooter involved.

On a side note of humility, I looked like a complete idiot in Ken's class. On the way out of the ear, I thought I would help my wife out by loosening her secondary tie off. Bad idea with all of the flow. As soon as I exited I was confronted by 3 OW divers with go pros (part of the notorious next level dive club down here that don't particularly make many people happy). As soon as they saw me coming out, they flocked too me with their go pros. I waited about a minute or so and all they did was move closer to me blocking my exit to see what we were doing. At one point one even went past me to get in my wife's face to shoot video. Anyway, with all of the fuss going on I didn't know what was going on behind me, so I stupidly turned around to see if I could help. All that did was get me wrapped up horribly in the loose line since I loosened that secondary tie off. I tried to free myself and it only got worse. Finally at the end of it both Ken and my wife had to use their cutting devices to free me so I could get to the log. I had gotten the line wrapped around my right bailout tank, around my back, around my left primary tank, then in front of me. Ken (or maybe Bryan the second instructor) said it was the second worst entanglement they've seen. On the log, it took me about 5 minutes to finally get all of the line from around me. It was the first day of class, we had some nerves going on, and I never expected a bunch of dummies getting in the way of our exit. Add to that, it was the heaviest flow I've dealt with in my rebreather. So it was just a general cluster-f moment.
We keep checking next level dive club's fb page for the video of the dumbass wrapped up in line with 3 cave divers behind him laughing their asses off.

on edit: funny, manatee brought up entanglement as I typed all of this

 

[kensuf]

Doesn't the ear have a log going across the chimney with a chain wrapped around it? Why would you not use that as a primary tie? The end of the log is right up against the wall and forms a perfect closed station. There's then tons of room for another primary on the other wall plus more a little lower.

I have to admit the only time I went in there was on a scooter and we didn't run a primary... So do as I say not as I do lol

You don't want to use the log at Devil's Ear as a primary tie off because you will likely create a huge entanglement hazard that could potentially ensnare a freediver. Get to the bottom of the chute, lay in the sand, get as close to the entrance, then do your primary tie off. You have a direct ascent to the surface and you're not making a hazard for others.

The risk of entanglement from poorly run lines is also one of the reasons we moved the gold line in the Eye.

 

[Jack Hammer]

@Manatee Diver
I'm enjoying your write ups, Thanks. I think you'll find it is nice in the beginning to know what failures to expect and be able to prepare. As you progress in the class random unexpected failures will force you to problem solve and much better prepare you for real world cave diving. Same goes for leading on the way in. It's super easy to always follow someone in, it also can lead to bad habits and sloppy technique because no one is watching what you are doing. Having each dive be different will make you a better rounded diver and pay dividends in your diving post class. Looking forward to the next installment.

- Jeff

edit: tagged wrong person.