Hopping my way to full cave...

[rjack321]

Thanks for the video! Of course, now everyone can see how terrible I am at running a line… Not that I ever say anything else, but it’s never fun to see it on video.

It was a fun dive. I’m glad we got to do it.

ETA: if I’m going to suffer the embarrassment, I want the advantage, too. If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know. I’d love to hear them.

It can be hard sometimes, but my one suggestion would be to concentrate on facing into the cave. On the primary tie you got completely turned around 360 degrees by the time you were done.

On the secondary you picked the roundest feature on the right hand wall. I think you might have done better to use that rounded knuckle as a directional (aka just go under it) then do your secondary on the right side a foot or two beyond which looked rougher with more hooks to hold your line on. You also mostly spun around on this tie (~120+ degrees to the right from the original direction of travel)

The third tie down by the cinder block might not have been a tie at all (I couldn't quite tell). Using that as a directional was fine but still try to avoid the 90+ degree right turn of your body.

If you stay facing into the cave you will not only be more efficient but there's less opportunity to stick your fins in another line or just someplace they shouldn't be (silt, percolation etc). There is also less opportunity to snag fins/fin straps etc on your own line or someone else's. No need to spin for a hand signal at the start either. To signal your buddy "ok" your light on the wall and they can "ok" or flash you back using the same spot (they know you're looking at that area).

From start to finish primary + secondary was about 1 minute all in less than 50ft of water... You can totally afford to slow down, hang and study the entry and pick a path which avoids all the rotating. Going more methodically you will probably use less gas too even if it feels slow.

 

[tmassey]

From start to finish primary + secondary was about 1 minute all in less than 50ft of water... You can totally afford to slow down, hang and study the entry and pick a path which avoids all the rotating. Going more methodically you will probably use less gas too even if it feels slow.

My biggest failing as a SCUBA Diver is I go too fast. That was the thing that struck me when watching the video: how fast I was moving. I thought I *was* moving slowly while I was doing it. But objectively watching the video, I realized I could move half as fast and still be moving pretty quickly.

There’s one point where I signal to my buddy that the line was loose. In the video you can see him realize what I’m telling him and start to move in that direction, but then I had already moved all the way back so that I can fix it. There was absolutely not nearly enough time for him to be able to make the realization and do anything about it before I had already rushed in. That’s probably the thing I’m the most embarrassed about in that part.

I hadn’t thought about how much I was twisting around, but you are right, of course. There’s no question it makes life a lot harder. I will give some thought on how to avoid that as well. I think my natural inclination is to simply face what I’m trying to work on. Of course, horizontally underwater, that has a lot more consequences than vertically on land. I can certainly see the difficulty that causes.

 

[rjack321]

No worries, cave diving is exciting! It can be hard to just relax and chill.

The maze of logs/sticks at the entry is one of those places where you don't really want to go through the middle of the mess, but going around causes lots of wiggly twisty all over the place movements with your fins kicking the wall or knocking the algae off the logs - so its a juggling act. Don't be afraid to break trim and go head down in places like this too.

One slow down technique you could try is to take at least 4 breaths and study your (next) tie off placement before moving. Most divers breathe about 10-15 respirations per minute so 4 breaths is really only ~20 seconds.

 

[rjack321]

ps another slowing yourself down trick is to scan which way you are laying line ahead of you, then make a conscious effort to find at least 2 different suitable tie offs that you could use. Debate which one is the better of the two, then use that one. Repeat.

Forcing yourself to find two doesn't take as long as you'd think and really slows everything down. Plus you get less tunnel visioned on the first one you saw.

 

[tbone1004]

@tmassey This is just while I'm watching so I'm sure it's been said.

• Primary, I have no issue with trees as primary tie off, but I usually try to find the "edge" of a tree or down in a notch somewhere so the line is less apt to slip. Make sure that you are trying to keep the line always to the side of your arm. You can see it cross below you and get tied up in your legs. If you are descending, you never want to be "on top" of the line. Try to hold your arm out to the side so it is free of your body. If you have to cross, go head down and transfer the reel to your other hand. @rjack321 mentioned always stay facing the cave for this. I actually usually face out of the cave for primary tie off, and I usually turn 90* on secondary. For these I find that it gives you a better idea of where the line is going to be going. I don't really object to the 360* spin here as I probably would have done the same. Approached the tree from the left, turned to face it, tied off, and finished the turn on my way in. You do need really good whiskers to do this properly though and in general I do agree that unnecessary turning has a high risk for you to get tied up, which you also did on the descent.
• Right at 2:00 you went right over one of the best places for a secondary tie off below you and to the left which is nice and knobby. It's in the "middle" of the cave from where your primary was so I understand wanting to stay on the edge, but you could have kept the line at the bottom and moved it over to the side. The one about 2ft farther in and up would also have been really good that Richard mentioned. That all said, I don't really consider what you did to be a proper secondary tie off. I don't believe that it would have held if the primary let go. You could also have just gone straight to the tree branch and done your secondary on that little spikey thing.
• After your secondary, you are controlling the line with both hands. Left hand has reel, right hand is guiding. Work on one handed line laying and putting more tension with your finger on the barrel. This was an issue between primary and secondary tie offs with slack line and is here as well. When you make a placement or wrap then you can swap to the left and place/wrap with the right, but try to keep the reel in one hand. This is much less important at this stage of the game since you don't "need" both hands, but if you ever get to CCR or DPV, it will be critical that you can do this one-handed.
• At 3:01 you make an actual "tie off" on that piece of wood. Learn how to use wraps instead. Faster and easier.
• @Manatee Diver at 4:10 ish right after the line placement. One thing that I was taught that a lot of instructors don't really teach is how to lay line as the buddy in the back. @victorzamora and I had a bit of learning curve with this in the beginning of diving together. The diver laying the line needs to be able to both lay and retrieve the line solo, which is why I suspect this isn't taught. That said, I was taught to be an attentive buddy and assist with line placements and wraps on the way in. This particular section of the cave has the potential for a really nasty line trap that the lead diver may not see or realize on the way in, especially if they're not familiar with this passage. There are several good sized rocks in the floor that you can use to bring the line out. The wrap commend and video above will also make your job easier on the way out as I try to undo all wraps/placements for the guy behind me. You undo the placement/wrap, take up the slack between your index fingers, and the guy behind you focuses on reeling in and staying out of the way. Makes for a more efficient exit and also gives you something to do. Victor was quite confused the first time that we went diving and I started doing that since he wasn't used to it. You do still need to be able to do everything solo, but it can make things easier.
• At 5:04 there is a rock that was wrapped. That rock is fairly big and can't have the "crochet" wrap done one-handed. I usually run that about 2ft into the middle of the cave under that big flat rock since you are making a pretty good bend and don't want that to move. When Victor and I dove that last month, he made that a line placement knowing that I was coming in right behind him with two free hands and would be able to wrap it behind him. He and I dive a lot together and are very similar in the way we think so this is all done without communication. As you two develop as a dive-team, things like this will eventually happen.
• At 5:57 you place a small rock on the line. First off, don't throw rocks in the cave, you can see how much silt came up both when you rapidly picked it up, then that much more when you threw it back down. This section is mostly sand so it settles pretty quickly, but you don't want to get in that habit. Everything we do underwater should be slow, methodical, and deliberate. Now, placing that rock is fine when the line isn't making a directional change and you are just trying to weight it down, but is not the best way to skin that cat as you noticed when you had to come back and tie it after it pulled out. You ran the line on the right side of the passage, so I would have actually gone behind the sign post to cross the cave as late as possible. There are a lot of rock outcroppings for a good placement, but there is also the cinderblock and the sign post itself that you can use to make that turn.
• Skipping to the end where we can see the results of how the line was placed.
• At 39:15 we see our first good shot at the reel. We know that we always want a perpendicular approach to the gold line when tying in, but oblique is better than parallel. You can see where the line is actually pretty slack as a repercussion of using that rock at the bottom to make the turn and the tension was released as the line slipped. If you look at the left side of the rock where the gold line ties into, you can actually see the groove where primary lines have started cutting into the rock itself over time. That groove is there for a reason and stems from people using the sign post as a means to turn that corner you can see how it is a nearly straight approach to that rock and also gives you a nearly 90* turn to tie into gold.
• At 39.29 you can see also how the cinderblock is oriented right in front of the sign post. If you are going to come up the way you came, going to the cinderblock and using it as a line placement to make that corner would still have been a better choice as it is larger/heavier and wouldn't have moved with the line tension. You also have the larger jutouts from the big flat rock right in front of it that would have been good as well. To the buddy, if you see a line placement like what was made on the way in, you can feel free to move it over to a better placement if you see one.
• At 39:40 the buddy starts to turn around to look at the reel. Don't do that. Waste of time/energy, but as new divers you can also see what happens with all the silt. The guy in the back knows where you are, and if you watch the line, you know what he's doing, so there is no need to turn around. Good choice of removing that tie-off for him though.
• At 40:16 you can see the first small rock tie off. Just to the right, you can also see a much larger flat rock that could have been used as a more secure placement option. Here you don't undo the tie-off for him. I generally try to aim for consistent parenting, so if you're going to undo tie-offs/wraps/placements for the guy with the reel, try to do it for all of them so you are a more predictable buddy. If you're not going to do it, no problem, but try to be consistent with everything you do. Unpredictable buddies are really annoying.
• At 40:53 we see a very sketchy line placement. I think this got caught when the line went slack at the first rock tie off that was done at 5:04. Not really something that is that terrible, but you do always want to pay attention to things like that on your way out to see what the line really looks like which gives you things to think about on the next dive.
• At 42:03 you can see the double lock on the tree branch again. I would have done that as a single lock. Nothing wrong with double locks, but it's in a largely straight line on a pretty solid object, so I don't think the extra security would have been warranted.

I'll watch the rest of the video later, but those are my thoughts on the primary running portion.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Well I am back at it, I didn't get as many dives as I wanted between getting my Apprentice and this weekend, but such is life.

Did two dives yesterday. First we did some dive planning since these would be deco dives, and we would be doing multiple jumps in preparation of going to Mexico next month. We planned based on my Ginnie RMV rate of 0.7cuft/min/atm, which meant about 600-700 of penetration at 1,100psi thirds.

Dive 1:
Down the ear, through the Gallery, Lips, and Keyhole, and shortly after park bench we jumped to the Hill 400 line, and shortly after that jumped to the July Spring Line. The plan was to jump to the Parallel Lines, but turned when I realized that I would hit thirds will running the jump spool. The exit was uneventful, except for some slight confusion about which exit we were going to use. I thought deco=eye exit but he wanted to do the deco in the ear. Cleared deco, and back to the surface for debrief.

Overall no big issues, I was a little negative while running the primary reel, needed to get further up. My deco bottle drop went much better now that I am using my own bottle, so the bottom leash is the perfect length for me.

Dive 2:
Started just after noon, which was a big mistake. The vis in the run was inches, with lots of feet kicking about, after hitting the bank more than once I surfaced, shot a compass heading down the run, and followed the compass on my computer using the other hand to protect my head.

Down the ear, again no reels in the gallery, so ran my reel where I wanted, this time staying off the ground a little more. Back through the gallery, lips, and key hole, but this time we jumped to the Bone Line, and shortly after that to Express Way, and past the T to the short cut tunnel marking the way out with a cookie, and kept going until hit thirds. Turned and on the way back he showed me so cave features that I should know about, as diving sidemount gives me some options to bypass Keyhole that I should know about when the cave was busy. Unfortunately they weren't briefed so I was a bit confused, and he mentioned them after. After that we went back the way we came doing deco in the ear again.

The run was even worse than we went in, so bad Chris went up the stairs by the eye, and even then got turned around trying to get to his truck. I continued down the run but chose to surface swim it. Doing my surface deco sucked, as I hadn't had lunch and whatever they were grilling smelled good.

During the debrief Chris liked the fact that I was further off the floor while running the primary reel, and I was almost perfect there. But he didn't like the fact that I had the after burners off for some reason. And I have no excuse, I don't know why I did it, it was wrong.

He also noted a couple of equipment issues I needed to fix. This was my first dive with a can light with him. I needed to adjust my back look so it hung better, and he felt that the top snap on my deco bottle was too long.

Dive 3:
We met Sunday at 6:30am so we could splash early. During the brief he emphasized what he wanted to see me move slowly and spend more time gliding. And doubly emphasized it by pull on my fin in the gallery anytime I was kicking and I should be. Well that emphasis worked. We jumped at the Bone Line again, and again to the Express way Tunnel but this time I ran it the slightly less direct way around the rock as now that I knew where it was it seemed that diving with a backmount diver it would be better to go around. Down expressway to the T, instead of continuing down the line we took the short cut line back to the gold line, dropping a cookie on my jump reel to note the direction of travel. We continued down the gold line until I hit thirds, which was just past the 800foot arrow, which is the farthest I had been down Ginnie. Exit was uneventful, except that I found that my inflator got unhooked somehow during deco, but thankfully I was neutral enough, that I could hold 20 feet until I could rehook it up. Cleared deco, and up the run for the run for the debrief.

Other than needing to fin less in the Gallery, the debrief was brief, as I took the lesson to heart and kicked once or twice and then glided pulling when it was available. A couple of issues during my gas switch, not purging the reg, and not showing the hose, but those were minor. All in all he said that I really looked on track for full cave, and that he would loosen my restrictions to full thirds, and adding navigation. I don't know how many until he gets the paperwork to me.

Random Thoughts:
The new rocks around the staircase are annoying, much harder to get gear up and down from the bank.

Check in at Ginnie is a bit different with a cave card, they let me check in for the following days without having a buddy there.

As I passed one of the mermaid's doing some photos, in my in my head David Attenborough was narrating "Behold the invasive Texas Red Shelled Snapping Turtle, as it attempts to pass the Florida Mermaid without getting attacked..." Yes I am weird.

 

[dewdropsonrosa]

We're actually pretty close on air consumption! I'm still on deck for the week of July 10-17ish (birthday week!), so hopefully I'll move closer to finishing and then we can hit some caves together.

 

[Caveeagle]

We're actually pretty close on air consumption! I'm still on deck for the week of July 10-17ish (birthday week!), so hopefully I'll move closer to finishing and then we can hit some caves together.

let me know If either of you are around cave country and need a buddy. Hopefully Little River and Madison will clear out soon and Ginnie will not be the only option. I have dove the ear a couple times from my boat, just to avoid the crowds...

 

[Manatee Diver]

let me know If either of you are around cave country and need a buddy. Hopefully Little River and Madison will clear out soon and Ginnie will not be the only option. I have dove the ear a couple times from my boat, just to avoid the crowds...

I try to get up to cave country at least every other weekend.

But I would love to dive with anyone, lots of stuff for me to see. Like once Peacock clears up I want to make it to Olsen and Challenge sink. And if I get enough range out of my 85s and enough navigational decisions perhaps to Olsen to Peanut via Crossover. Of course my 85s might be the limiting factors, I am pretty sure I can make Olsen, Challenge might be a challenge as you have the time to run the reel too.

I also need to get some time in flow systems too.

 

[rddvet]

Ginnie was a sh-t show on sunday. Hopefully it was better on saturday. We are used to Ginnie during the summer because the only days my wife and my schdules usually line up to dive is Sundays. So we get there early and get out before the craziness starts. This sunday we showed up 8AM. The clubhouse was packed with people that have no idea how or why to at least try to social distance. We started getting annoyed with people while checking in. We got to the spring run parking at 8:10, looked around, said screw this, and decided to spend time with our friend who lives in High Springs. At 8:15 in the AM Ginnie was already worse than on a typical holiday weekend in the summer. It was scary. I honestly don't know how Ginnie hasn't gotten shut down by the health department. They seem to be filling up to and past normal capacity. The kids at the desk said they think since the past two weekends it rained, everyone decided to show up this weekend. It's rare for the crowds to be so much that we bail out on our plans. It was ridiculous on Sunday. I suspect saturday was just as bad. Even a few weeks ago we were able to get in early enough that people were just starting to move around as we were packing the car to leave. Not this weekend.

If you're up there and need a buddy, shoot me a message. I only live 2 hours away.