Horrible Customer Service Experience

[redacted]

Hello Jax,

I inflated the wing and did not discover a leak prior to the trip. I do not recall whether I fully inflated it or not. When I inflated the wing prior to jumping in the water I did not detect a leak. No hissing sounds. Nothing. While diving, I noticed that the OPV side of the wing would not hold gas. I was able to dive, but dove sideways since the air was shifted to the opposite side while diving horizontally. Once I got home and got into the pool, I still did not notice a leak while the wing was partially inflated. However, when I fully inflated it, there was a large flow of bubbles coming from the wing. That's when I knew there was a leak and sent it in for repair.

The injury to the bladder was in a location that I could not have possibly seen. When I received the new bladder, I inflated the wing and saw no problems. I did not disassemble the wing to inspect the bladder as it connected to the OPV from the inside. Once I noticed that the wing did not hold air on my trip, I took it home and checked it in the pool. Even normally inflated, there was no leak. Only when it was fully inflated did I notice air escaping from the area around the OPV. That's when I returned it for repair.

Clearly reaching a verdict beyond the shadow of a doubt here is unlikely to occur. But you have twice now acknowledged inflating (testing) the replacement wing when you received it from DSS and you did not notice any problem (leak). Granted, that does not absolutely mean that there was not an incipient defect that did not become apparent to either you or DSS, for whatever reason, until 2 months later in Cozumel. But when you consider that DSS tested the wing before shipping and you tested the wing upon receipt, what is one to think about the reasonable and likely cause of your wing failure?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I own one of the original Torus 35 wings ... so original in fact, it doesn't even have the DSS logo sewn into the cover. About a year after I got it, I had to send it back to Tobin for repair. When it got there, Tobin called me, told me it had a pinch flat, and what I should do to avoid getting another one.

I've put well over 1000 dives on that wing since then without a problem ... and I'm not the sort who babies his gear.

I've learned to listen to Tobin ... he knows what he's talking about.

Oh, and for the person who wondered how Patrick would respond ... the one time I complained on ScubaBoard about a defective piece of Oxycheq gear, he told me to take my business elsewhere.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[redacted]

I own one of the original Torus 35 wings ... so original in fact, it doesn't even have the DSS logo sewn into the cover. About a year after I got it, I had to send it back to Tobin for repair. When it got there, Tobin called me, told me it had a pinch flat, and what I should do to avoid getting another one.

I've put well over 1000 dives on that wing since then without a problem ... and I'm not the sort who babies his gear.

I've learned to listen to Tobin ... he knows what he's talking about.

Oh, and for the person who wondered how Patrick would respond ... the one time I complained on ScubaBoard about a defective piece of Oxycheq gear, he told me to take my business elsewhere.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

So what you are saying is you got good advise in both cases

 

[RonFrank]

Wow, this is still going....amazing.

I put a snakebite in my OMS wing. I got a patch, did a quick repair, and did not have to start a thread!

I think its a shame that wing makers sew the bladder inside the wing, but for $50 have it repaired. Then sell the thing, or be more careful.

I can not imagine trying to assign blame when the thing was in a suitcase out of your control.... heck the airlines could have stabbed the wing! In any event this has sure been a silly debate over such a minor issue. I would hate to see what would come over something real.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Some models are sewn shut, and some are not. The shapes and sizes of the wings seem to alternate between sewn and zippered access.

I have both types here at home, and don't think it matters that much in the use of the wing. Repairing a small hole would be easier with zipper access of course, but only it the damage is in an accessible area. If it wasn't in an easily reached spot you would still have to completely remove the bladder to get to the damaged spot. Most people wouldn't have the necessary tools with them to be able to do that.

My wife's wings are sewn shut. I prefer horseshoe shaped wings, so by default mine have a zipper.
Tobin has more wing shapes and styles in his lineup than most companies do, so there are enough options for someone to get exactly what they want.


-Mitch

 

[ktomlinson]

I am pretty surprised at most of the responses here. I think that Tobin certainly knew what he was talking about when he said that very few people expect free stuff when they have a problem. I've learned from this thread that most don't expect much at all. I guess I am the rare exception that would expect a company to at least give a token of appreciation for my business and trouble...something as simple as "while we feel that the wing was damaged by a pinch flat and think you should take the following precautions in the future...we do appreciate your business and while we will have to charge you for this repair are willing to ship it at our expense". That covers it all. You solve the problem Tobin believes exists by educating the customer while being friendly, and no one admits blame.

 

[koozemani]

This he said/he said is clearly going to keep growing without satisfying either party.

To the OP: you are obviously dissatisfied with DSS. I'm pretty positive if you were to place your wings up for sale, many here on the board would gladly take them off your hands. At which point you can wash your hands of DSS for good.

To Tobin: sorry brother, I doubt you'll change his mind. Apart from the derogatory subject line, anyone who reads this thread will see that you have many supporters. Several who aren't even DSS customers, but who realize and appreciate your contributions, help, and advice to those of the SB family.

I will be a return customer, unless the OP is roughly my size, or my gf's size.

 

[Splitlip]

I prefer access to my bladder. My single wings are zippered ovals. I figure if the repair is beyond me, I can find somebody more skilled locally than I to make the repair. My LDS is a Halcyon/Scubapro dealer. While my wings are neither, I'm pretty sure the techs could remove and replace the bladders. That aside, I have friends that can do it.

I give Tobin kudos for replacing the bladders damaged by others for 50 bucks. I would just rather have access to mine.

Some models are sewn shut, and some are not. The shapes and sizes of the wings seem to alternate between sewn and zippered access.

I have both types here at home, and don't think it matters that much in the use of the wing. Repairing a small hole would be easier with zipper access of course, but only it the damage is in an accessible area. If it wasn't in an easily reached spot you would still have to completely remove the bladder to get to the damaged spot. Most people wouldn't have the necessary tools with them to be able to do that.

My wife's wings are sewn shut. I prefer horseshoe shaped wings, so by default mine have a zipper.
Tobin has more wing shapes and styles in his lineup than most companies do, so there are enough options for someone to get exactly what they want.


-Mitch

 

[irishsquid]

...this has sure been a silly debate over such a minor issue. I would hate to see what would come over something real.

Yeah, could you imagine if Tobin made split fins, integrated inflator/octos, or spare airs?

 

[Mopar]

.
Oh, and for the person who wondered how Patrick would respond ... the one time I complained on ScubaBoard about a defective piece of Oxycheq gear, he told me to take my business elsewhere.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Wow ever since this thread started I have been reading in the Oxycheq forum. All the complaints I read and he never responds. Sounds like he does not care. To tell someone to take his business elsewhere is the ultimate horrible customer service. . I hope my Mach V wing holds up. At least Tobin does care and is helpful to everyone