Horrible Divers Everywhere?

[rob.mwpropane]

my aow was 200 bucks. thats 4 hours of work for most people in california where im at. how many hours of work did it take for an equivilent to an aow card say in the 80s. id guess a heck of a lot more. lot of people saying its expensive for a nitrox or aow card on this thread and thats in a sport where good dive computers are 1000 bucks and great regs are 1500

perspective needed. you are in a rich mans sport whether you admit it or not. even if you can do it cheap trust me its a rich mans game if you include the travel and destinations and all the equipment.

Holy Moly, lol! It's not that I'm worried about the cost. I say it's expensive for what it was. I completely understand that this is a more expensive sport / hobby. If what was advertised and sold is what was taught there wouldn't be an issue. My experience is that we were pushed through class doing the absolute minimal requirements and there were a lot of things that if you didn't do it....oh well, you still passed. Everyone got an award!!! There were 3 people in my class that needed more 1 on 1 time and they just passed. That's not how I though it would / should be.

The way the shops in my area are set up is to push someone through, get their OW, AOW, Nox, photography, hermit crab, underwater yoga card, etc as fast as they can, lol. It seems the more I branch out, the more this is the norm and I don't personally agree with it. I am apart of a business where we're really honest with people even if it means they don't go with us. I don't sell them 10x what they need, but they tell their friends / family about us and we just keep on moving. I surely don't promise them something and not include it. I don't have the answers for the scuba industry, I just don't agree with it. My best answer for myself is to stay as far away from other people as possible.

I don't have a fancy dive computer because I don't need it for the diving that I do (not yet anyway). My regs are Deep 6 bought on Black Friday and they breath just fine. It might be an expensive hobby, but I don't have to be super wealthy to do it. I have friends that have spent 4x what I have because it's what the shop told them they needed. More power to them. I can see spending $1000 on a dc one day (maybe $650 used?, lol), I'm not sure I can see the difference in a $1500 vs $375 reg?

One of the reasons I’m moving towards the tech route with GUE early on is because I want to get away from McDonald’s type diving, complacency, and the sheep mindset that goes along with that.

Understood. I don't know if it's sheep mindset. When I first took a class I just didn't know what I didn't know. Maybe an ignorant mindset? I think you can be an amazing recreational diver if you want to stop there. I think I just want more bottom time (at some point). Someone on here posted how they do a little bit of deco on the wrecks in FL going out with the same outfits everyone else uses. He said he gets more bottom time for the same $. I like that idea. Instead of 2 dives in ~ 4hours he gets 1 long dive. I just want to go down and stay down. If it ever becomes possible to live underwater sign me up......

 

[JHumbert15]

Yeah, and a BP/W will push you face down. If one is over weighted and have to fully inflate your BC to be neutral, that might be the case. I've not had an issue with either, and I'm not all that special.



Bob

It only pushes you face down if you over inflate at the surface in the bp/w.

- Jake

 

[Bob DBF]

It only pushes you face down if you over inflate at the surface in the bp/w.

- Jake

And a jacket only pushes you upright underwater if you overinflate below the surface.


Bob

 

[txgoose]

And a jacket only pushes you upright underwater if you overinflate below the surface.


Bob

That is designed to make you more streamlined as you rocket up through the safety sto.......it was optional anyway.

 

[Ayisha]

Key word: back-inflate. I'm not saying you're wrong (because you're not at all), but just pointing out that a bp/w will function much like a back inflate as you mentioned. However, in a normal jacket style, it is much harder, in my opinion, to keep optimal trim unless you have weights towards your head, as the jacket wants to push you head up. Not saying it can't be done, but it is harder than a back inflate jacket or a bp/w.

- Jake

Sure, any BCD and individual diver benefits from optimal weighting, whether it's a traditional jacket, back-inflate or bp/w. Remember that in the video that happy-diver posted below, Achim is wearing a regular jacket, not a back-inflate jacket. It actually looks like it would probably be quite buoyant. A good diver can make anything look good.

In mentioning back-inflate, I was referring to the similarities in dealing with a bp/w, such as weighting distribution and deflating. Going from a regular jacket to a back inflate, including a bp/w would be a small shift in procedures, whereas going from back-inflate to bp/w would be very similar. For example, dumping air while in good trim from a back-inflate is usually done from the rear dump, since that's the highest point. To use the deflator hose would require a slight shoulder roll since if you're in good trim, that's not the highest point. Those are some things that surprise some divers, and where a good instructor or mentor can help work out the kinks.

Because we're worth it

 

[JHumbert15]

And a jacket only pushes you upright underwater if you overinflate below the surface.


Bob

This hasn't been my experience, but to each their own.

Sure, any BCD and individual diver benefits from optimal weighting, whether it's a traditional jacket, back-inflate or bp/w. Remember that in the video that happy-diver posted below, Achim is wearing a regular jacket, not a back-inflate jacket. It actually looks like it would probably be quite buoyant. A good diver can make anything look good.

I totaly agree, I was just saying that I feel in a traditional jacket style, without weight towards my head, it pushes my toward a 45 if I'm not moving. I was under the impression that for the most part, this is what a traditional jacket does through reading others' experiences with them, and why they've switched to a bp/w.

- jake

 

[Degenerate]

Yeah, and a BP/W will push you face down. If one is over weighted and have to fully inflate your BC to be neutral, that might be the case. I've not had an issue with either, and I'm not all that special.


Bob

Haven't noticed that at all with my bpw, not at the surface and not below it either.
When I swapped to d12 tanks I did get a tiny bit front heavy, but swapping my v weight for a butt one fixed it.

 

[Bob DBF]

This hasn't been my experience, but to each their own.



I totaly agree, I was just saying that I feel in a traditional jacket style, without weight towards my head, it pushes my toward a 45 if I'm not moving. I was under the impression that for the most part, this is what a traditional jacket does through reading others' experiences with them, and why they've switched to a bp/w.

- jake

Haven't noticed that at all with my bpw, not at the surface and not below it either.
When I swapped to d12 tanks I did get a tiny bit front heavy, but swapping my v weight for a butt one fixed it.

That's my point, if weighted and trimmed properly, either BC will work quite well. Once you get into configurations outside those parameters you find "quirks" when using them. Chactorizing the units operation as usual when using it improperly is not a fair comparison.

I didn't go to a BP/W because of its operation, I just missed the open feel that I had in a BP/no wing that I learned to dive.

It isn't the gear that makes a diver, it's how they use the gear they have.



Bob

 

[Sam Miller III]

@Bob DBF
posted

It isn't the gear that makes a diver, it's how they use the gear they have.

I have a new hero !

sdm

 

[Degenerate]

That's my point, if weighted and trimmed properly, either BC will work quite well. Once you get into configurations outside those parameters you find "quirks" when using them. Chactorizing the units operation as usual when using it improperly is not a fair comparison.

Are you saying I am using it improperly by using a V/B weight with it or..?
I honestly can't tell.

It isn't the gear that makes a diver, it's how they use the gear they have.

I absolutely agree with you on this.