How can GUE/UTD work with so few instructors?

[Coldwater_Canuck]

This is kind of a curiosity question since I'm a long ways from tech, although I may take a funadmentals class at some point.

But I'm looking on GUEs site, and in the United States there are only 5 technical instructors, and only one who can teach the Tech 3 class. Is technical training for most people even an option with them unless the person wants to travel to California or whatever to take the class?

UTD looks like they have some really cool classes: 4 rec, 4 tech, 7 overhead including wreck and cave, 8 or so specialties, 2 DPV, and 2 rebreather: how is this even possible with a grand total of 9 instructors in the USA?

So what is the deal with these agencies? How is it possible to offer so many classes with so few instructors?

 

[Blackwood]

"How is it possible to offer so many classes with so few instructors?"

I'm not sure what you mean. They structure courses based on their paradigm(s) as to what is necessarily to bring a diver to mastery level in various environments, not on how many people are able to teach them.

"Is technical training for most people even an option with them unless the person wants to travel to California or whatever to take the class?"

Most students who aren't lucky enough to live near GUE or UTD instructors fly them out for training.

 

[Peter Guy]

So what is the deal with these agencies? How is it possible to offer so many classes with so few instructors?

Simple answers:

a. It is possible to offer the classes because both GUE and UTD have instructors who can teach them. While perhaps not very many instructors to teach any one class, they have what they have -- so it is, indeed, possible to teach many levels of classes with just a few instructors -- just not many classes.

b. Both GUE and UTD, I'm sure, would say they choose very high quality instruction over mass instruction which would answer your first question -- what's up with them.

The sad reality is that most people who learn to dive do so with the intent of being "vacation recreational divers" and, quite frankly, don't fit the model of the student who would be willing to "suffer through" either GUE or UTD training. (Note -- I've "suffered through" training from both these entities and am of the opinion the training received is excellent, but very demanding.)

Question for the OP -- What is YOUR concern about having strict quality controls on the instructor corps?

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

I'm not sure what you mean. They structure courses based on their paradigm(s) as to what is necessarily to bring a diver to mastery level in various environments, not on how many people are able to teach them.

Well you can't have a course unless someone has the time to teach it ...

My point is say UTD , they have around 25 courses, this seems like a lot for one or two people to both get qualified and have the time to teach.

You mention flying people out, but does this not start to get incredibly expensive (granted, technical diving and diving in general isn't cheap)?

Say for example, I'm ready to start technical training (as in deco, not fundies) right now (pure hypothetical of course, since I'm not) and think GUE is the agency for me: I need to either fly an instructor out or go down to California myself? This just seems a little odd, it's not like Seattle is the middle of nowhere or diving is some foreign activity.

 

[TSandM]

Students who want these classes either travel to where they are given (see amascuba's report of his Fundamentals class) or fly in an instructor to their location. Friends of mine, for example, recently took GUE Tech 2. They did a weekend in Florida with their instructor to begin with, and about a month later, flew him out to Monterey to do the experience dive portion of the class. It is an expensive way to take classes, but then again, people looking for inexpensive classes are not going to choose these agencies, anyway.

UTD is a very new agency, and will undoubtedly expand its instructor core slowly and carefully. GUE is also expanding slowly. I don't believe either intends to challenge PADI for world domination. Realistically, as Peter says, most people learn to dive to do a few dives on vacation, and although they would all benefit from the skills taught in these classes, few even know they exist, or would be willing to put the money and time into developing them.

People who take these classes tend to be highly motivated, avid divers, and prioritize superb training to the point of being able to do what it takes to get it.

 

[Blackwood]

My point is say UTD , they have around 25 courses, this seems like a lot for one or two people to both get qualified and have the time to teach.

While they may offer 25 individual courses, I doubt it is UTD's goal (at least in the near term) to continually teach them all.

Both GUE and UTD are demand oriented agencies rather than supply oriented agencies.

You mention flying people out, but does this not start to get incredibly expensive (granted, technical diving and diving in general isn't cheap)?

Generally people interested in Team Oriented technical training take the class with one or two other people. Splitting the travel expenses of an instructor isn't too terrible on top of all the other costs.

Say for example, I'm ready to start technical training (as in deco, not fundies) right now (pure hypothetical of course, since I'm not) and think GUE is the agency for me: I need to either fly an instructor out or go down to California myself?

Not necessarily California, but yes, you either choose a GUE instructor and go to them or bring them to you.

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

Simple answers:
a. It is possible to offer the classes because both GUE and UTD have instructors who can teach them. While perhaps not very many instructors to teach any one class, they have what they have -- so it is, indeed, possible to teach many levels of classes with just a few instructors -- just not many classes.

Do they offer the classes much though is kind of what I'm asking? It's one thing to list a bunch of courses on a website, but it doesn't mean much if they aren't realistic to take. Realistically, are most classes regularly offered?

b. Both GUE and UTD, I'm sure, would say they choose very high quality instruction over mass instruction which would answer your first question -- what's up with them.

Oh yes, I understand the philosophy of it, just wasn't sure of the practicality

Question for the OP -- What is YOUR concern about having strict quality controls on the instructor corps?

My concern would be spending all the time and money working my way into the DIR thinking and then when I'm ready to go technical having to go with TDI anyways because there is no instructor around (maybe that's not a bad thing, not sure how compatible traditional tech training is with DIR).

 

[Jim Lapenta]

A large number of instructors has no bearing on the quality of the education. We see that illustrated clearly in the posts from new divers who cannot swim horizontal, do not know how to do weight checks, cannot clear a mask without kneeling on something, and cannot dive without a DM in the water.

 

[Rhone Man]

I always just assumed it was brand strategy.

 

[Blackwood]

Do they offer the classes much though is kind of what I'm asking? It's one thing to list a bunch of courses on a website, but it doesn't mean much if they aren't realistic to take. Realistically, are most classes regularly offered?

Ask and they will provide.

They both have schedules that you can search/access, but if you don't see a course you want to take, contact an instructor and set one up.

http://www.gue.com/?q=en/node/69
http://unifiedteamdiving.ning.com/events