You can not make a conclusion on the network from only one aspect. the internet is advertising. training, shopping, reaearch, and more. Each one of these have both pro and cons to them, In relation to the new generation, they are for the most part totally instant gratification driven, and serviced by the internet. They have less need for personal contact. If they have to,,, they will do a formal class to get beyond an OW card but it ends there for too many. Unless they HAVE TO have personal further training they will not do it. In most cases they do not have to do it because the industries economics is based on no furtuer than OW training. that's not a rant .... it is just a case of,,,,,, those are the facts. LDS's have shut down because of the internet. Its pure business outcome. The cheaper guy gets the market. Much like Padi is the most popular organization for trainers,,,, not because of any degree of being best , but because they can operate independantly out side of a shop. Perhaps another view of it is that you do not need a cert to dive any more than you need a license to drive. They are both nothing more than a cert documenting training that should better your chances of survival. The old folks here know this to be true. Many dove with out any prior training, and are all here to tell about it. So yes basic diving is that simple.
How has the internet affected diving? Good/bad or both?
- Thread starter Eric Sedletzky
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You can not make a conclusion on the network from only one aspect. the internet is advertising. training, shopping, reaearch, and more. Each one of these have both pro and cons to them, In relation to the new generation, they are for the most part totally instant gratification driven, and serviced by the internet. They have less need for personal contact. If they have to,,, they will do a formal class to get beyond an OW card but it ends there for too many. Unless they HAVE TO have personal further training they will not do it. In most cases they do not have to do it because the industries economics is based on no furtuer than OW training. that's not a rant .... it is just a case of,,,,,, those are the facts. LDS's have shut down because of the internet. Its pure business outcome. The cheaper guy gets the market. Much like Padi is the most popular organization for trainers,,,, not because of any degree of being best , but because they can operate independantly out side of a shop. Perhaps another view of it is that you do not need a cert to dive any more than you need a license to drive. They are both nothing more than a cert documenting training that should better your chances of survival. The old folks here know this to be true. Many dove with out any prior training, and are all here to tell about it. So yes basic diving is that simple.
I would suggest that the jobs coming back is because of divers now having the money to spend on travel and diving from a bettering economy. One can not base the industry based on key or prime spots in the world. It may be years before we get a well known if any LDS in our area again. My nearest ones are 100 miles. Its hard to compete with 3/4 of your customers quiting all together and the remaining 1/4 shifting business to outlet LDS's. For places like Leisure Pro and others their size, they probably did not see much detrimental impact of the past ecomony. What customers they lost they made from the gain of closed LDS's customers.
NAUI Wowie
Contributor
agreed but that doesnt mean they wont also scuba dive. Im pre internet but even at my drunkest im not that biased against the younger generation.
pretty soon all of us over 45 will all be dead.
and guess what..... 40 years from now there will be more scuba divers than there are now.... thats a future fact brotha....you cant fight the truth with hating annoying kids......they grow up eventually and will rule the world....again because we will all be dead.
NAUI Wowie
Contributor
your reply and im quoting you as you stated its not a rant...IS a rant....
you think there are negatives to the internet that outweigh finding great dive destinations and great deals....and that it kills local dive shops.
Ill call b.s. on your theory right now. Vehemently but with friendship in mind towards you personally as another diver....albeit misinformed.
Why am I taking an opposing view to you? im older....im pre internet....
but
You are missing the point....local dive shops have all the power. IF they have a good business model.
I buy things online for scuba yes. small things...but in the last year ive spent about 8 grand at my local dive shop. because they are BETTER than the internet...how is that? how can my dive shop sell me a Teric for 800 bucks? How can they also fill my scuba tanks to within two tenths of a percent on nitrox fills?
how can they organize cool local weekend dives?
I dont get it kws....how are they BEATING THE INTERNET???
EVERYONE loves the ease of the internet but EVERYONE also loves the human touch. I have a guy at one of my two dive shops that totally rips me every time i come by....suggests all kinds of things.... i love this man....hes got personality....the internet doesnt have that!!!
this shop has been around forever as has the other one....they are both AWESOME....do i buy online? yes when its black and white, hey im poor i save where i can but when i make a large purchase i buy in person with people i like alot.
is the internet killing local dive centers? HA!!!!
you want to see a great online business model? Look at lake hickory scuba....those guys are badazz. youtube, scubaboard, website....they kill it....a local dive shop where??? not in ANY exotic location
the internet does not kill local business...it HELPS local business....but the weak ones yes you are correct....will fail more often now
survival of the fittest.
the internet is a double edged sword. it may kill some but those places deserve to die....or change and grow to survive....
by the way....you say your nearest local dive center is 100 miles away....
dont want to be rude but who puts up an icecream stand in the middle of a desert with no local traffic.....
you want to see a lot of dive centers then live near scuba areas..... dont use an excuse to say scuba is failing.
I have no clue where your mind is at. your assumptions are completely wrong. I simply made the point that you can not judge the impact of the internet by looking only at the things that others mentioned. Yes it has been the backbone on dive travel and much m ore but they also have the opposite effect on other areas. Specifically in areas where loosing 30% of your business will put you under. None of my comments were a condemnation of the industry. The economy has driven many of business places to close doors. Scuba is only at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to making your money cover needed items or luxury items. the vacation industry suffered the same. As sales go much of it has gone to internet shopping so one does not have the hassle of driving to shop. Its not a problem with scuba it is human nature. Its the way with the new generations.
You cite getting a terric for 800 I can get the same on the internet. any one can.
You cite location as the problem with LDS's closing. it does not matter where you are located if you dont have the jobs to finance the sport then it goes to the wayside. Lets not forget the impact that bummer care had. higher costs ad loss of jobs. All impact on the deserts of life. My primary shopping area is Dallas. They could have an overall lower percentage of divers but that is ok when you have such a large population where the small percentage off divers can support a shop.
You cite you are older. I doubt it and if so not by much
You cite internet helping business. Cant prove that because unless you are in prime areas you will be shut down for lack of volume sales.
Had leisure pro not been internet do you think places like that would have survived. probably not.
Would resort areas ever suffer scuba wise. probably very little but the waiting lines would not be there to get a reservation like they once was. those conditions are when the bank deposites do not decline. Through all the economy problems the cruise ships are always full they will not see a decline in revenues. That would be different is there was a cruise line in every port city.
As business model goes.. we had business here for decades and they closed down because of the economy. If you are not selling cards or gear, you are going to go under. Dive trips have shifted from shops trying to get fee trips to dive clubs where the travelers are of a higher percentage of the membership population. So if you are not in the super areas you are going to go under. And they did just that for 10 years or so. Recovery is going to be hard.
So again the internet has been both a great asset and a killer for scuba depending on the area and local economy.
Would I want to see he internet go away? no There is more good info from the net that you can get from any single instructor
Did the internet cut deeply into LDS sales. Yes but because of volume discounts and MAP for the large sellers that the small guy can not get.
Do places like FLA have an advantage. Yes they do and should. their business model has little to do with it because of location location location.
So again i say that you can not judge the health of the overall industry by looking solely at a limited set of indicators such as travel resorts. For the rest of the world the internet was a component (not the sole one) for many changes like the LDS's closing down.
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Obviously, you've never met Sruly and his gang. They are also Adorama camera, think mail order, and they crossed that business model over to Leisure Pro. When the Internet started to flourish, rather than cursing it, they embraced it and both their camera and scuba stores have reaped the benefits.
The internet is a curse to those who won't or can't be bothered to learn it and how to benefit from it. Yes, it has the possibility to pull a customer or two away from you, but it also has the potential to add thousands to replace the one or two you missed. Adapt or die. Evolve or go extinct.
What amazes me is how many dive shops avoid ScubaBoard. They'll embrace Facebook, which has no SEO to give them, but they seem to be afraid of us. Part of this is due to DEMA's incessant campaign to promote FB and demonize SB to the industry. We have survived in spite of them over the years and mostly because I have learned how to promote on the interwebs. They are all about the DEMA show and in less than half a day, we eclipse their traffic for their entire show... and we boost the SEO of any shop posting here or getting talked about. Want to know how to get traffic off of SB? Call or PM me. It's pretty darn easy and very, very few do it.
Most of this thread has warmed my heart. You guys are true fans and it's great to see that you hold SB in esteem. We promote diving by promoting safety as well getting you out and in the water. We are pro LDS as well as IDS. We want to see the manufacturers, the dive ops, the liveaboards, the resorts and YOU the diver prosper and grow. When you do well, we also do well.
I think the Internet is a GREAT source of learning and information. It's also a great source of misinformation and can be an incredible waste of time (you can define what wasting time is 
), but at the end of the day, it's just a tool to augment our lives and open up new possibilities.
It's what you make of it, and it does take a certain amount of discipline and effort to sift through some of the B.S., but on the whole (especially regarding diving) I've found that I have benefited greatly from the net. From being made aware of what's out there in terns of education, equipment, places to dive, articles of interest etc... as well as learning and seeing things from a different perspective from those with more experience (or any experience shared for that matter). It's also a great source for meeting some very cool people.
Definitely as far as I'm concerned it's been a good thing... but as always YMMV.
), but at the end of the day, it's just a tool to augment our lives and open up new possibilities.It's what you make of it, and it does take a certain amount of discipline and effort to sift through some of the B.S., but on the whole (especially regarding diving) I've found that I have benefited greatly from the net. From being made aware of what's out there in terns of education, equipment, places to dive, articles of interest etc... as well as learning and seeing things from a different perspective from those with more experience (or any experience shared for that matter). It's also a great source for meeting some very cool people.
Definitely as far as I'm concerned it's been a good thing... but as always YMMV.
Clearly there are business's that will do as you describe. Those businesses that have a unique aspect to them will never go away. Local has a lot to do with what a shop can do. The prospects to a FLA shop and a central Kansas store can not be compared, which was the primary point of my comments saying you can not judge the entire industry by a few locals. And the large movers can sell for less than a smaller shop can buy wholesale. Some things can not be overcome, and those shops shut down because of it. For them the internet is of no benefit to them because of comlpetition. Its not a problem , but it is a truth that has to be accepted as part of the whole picture. A picture of which changes depending on where you go. Our entire gulf coast of texas has zero useful diving water from shore. you have to boat out to 20 miles or so to fond good water. Aspects like that make the sport cost prohibitive when an economy slump happens. Skateboard business may be great in cali but you could not sell one in the midwest right now. You are 100% right on SB supporting shops. Your LDS sale is my internet purchase. It all depends which glasses you look through.
CT-Rich
Contributor
I am sure there were shops that balked at having a post office inside because it didn’t fit there business model. And shop that couldn’t marine why they would want to have a telephone when o one else in town owned one. There were LDS that advertised cheap gray-market regulators in the back of Skin Diver magazine as early as I ever read it. They supplemented there foot traffic with mail order business.
A solid, competitive, forward leaning business will survive. A hobby business that was started to niche at a particular time will not see the tide turning or see it too late. Most mom and pop travel agents disappeared years ago. Some of them turned into Expedia or Liberty or became hyper specialized.
LeisurePro was never an LDS as far as I know. They are a 500 sqf shop in Manhattan. They were always primarily mail order business. You can go in and walk around, but it is nothing special. A lot of dive shops sell through eBay and Amazon they can get rid of old/used gear and close outs while focusing their brick and mortar outs on things with good margins or support the customer base like training, travel and services.
The Internet has made it much more competitive, but not killed the LDS.
A solid, competitive, forward leaning business will survive. A hobby business that was started to niche at a particular time will not see the tide turning or see it too late. Most mom and pop travel agents disappeared years ago. Some of them turned into Expedia or Liberty or became hyper specialized.
LeisurePro was never an LDS as far as I know. They are a 500 sqf shop in Manhattan. They were always primarily mail order business. You can go in and walk around, but it is nothing special. A lot of dive shops sell through eBay and Amazon they can get rid of old/used gear and close outs while focusing their brick and mortar outs on things with good margins or support the customer base like training, travel and services.
The Internet has made it much more competitive, but not killed the LDS.
OP
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
I used to shop at Leisure Pro before they dominated online sales. They had a big huge paper catalog they sent out very freely and an add in the back of every dive magazine out there. They were killing it and putting a hurting on LDS’s even before the internet. Their internet presence is just a transfer of media from printed to digital.
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