How would you handle this?

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I hope you are noting that almost 99% of hunters are ethical and just darn good people and not lumping them all into an "extremist" category. Im a little sensative when folks talk about hunters and extremeist in the same sentenance. thanks

No, I'm not lumping normal people with extremist people. Not on hunting, not on religion or any other issue.

My husband pointed out to me 2 days ago that 1 out of the only 5 photos I have here on the SB gallery is quite appropriate to the octopus thread. i was tempted to put it as signature a few posts ago but figured it would stop people from actually reading
 
Amusingly, the guy who's up in arms about "keyboard warriors" is the same guy who was talking earlier about calling a lawyer friend or two out in WA to have them go after Bob.

He can do that if he wants. I recommend he contact the family first and ask if they think it's in their best interest.

I suspect, when all is said and done, that I'm putting more effort into looking out for Dylan's best interest ... and that of his family ... than most of his so-called supporters.

For most of those, this is a game ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Cyberbullying and harassment is the new frontier re: when free speech can be curtailed by tort/criminal law, and it's not yet clear that these “new” crimes/torts will settle down into the same very narrow scope of behaviors as IIED/incitement/true threats/defamation/regular old harassment. But that’s the way to bet, since the principles of the First Amendment don’t change just because the media used did, and my purely personal opinion is that you’ll be fine based on what I’ve seen posted here and at NWDC. Others, it depends.
 
He can do that if he wants. I recommend he contact the family first and ask if they think it's in their best interest.

I suspect, when all is said and done, that I'm putting more effort into looking out for Dylan's best interest ... and that of his family ... than most of his so-called supporters.

For most of those, this is a game ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

If that's the case, and based on the example you're put forth, PLEASE don't look out for my best interests.
 
I on the otherhand, try to live my life considering first what is RIGHT OR WRONG,

There are two practical problems with that approach.

1) Since perception of right and wrong are culturally, genetically, and experientially biased, a universal application of that approach (where everyone follows their own code) results in chaos. You batter the rapist, his brother kills your entire family, I give the victim money for an abortion, someone else kills her and her doctor for having/performing an abortion, and it goes on and on from there.

2) Since individual perception is limited, you may simply be wrong about what you see. You assault the rapist, the girl assaults you for beating up her boyfriend, the good samaritan/cop shoots her to defend you, and it still goes on.

I am all for living according to a personal code, but at some point there must be restraint.
 
In the past few pages, I have seen this issue compared to rape, political activism, religious activism, 9/11 and WWII (and I probably missed some). Let's get a little perspective here.

It seems to me that Dylan pissed of the PNW diving community and got blackballed from the PNW diving community. Given some time or better yet, an apology, and it will all blow over, I don't see any harm done to Dylan other than some harassing phone calls by some idiots.
 
My closing the park was sarcastic,if you didn't guess. However, it was with thought. That is the kind of result that can occur with knee jerk reactions to un-liked actions. Sometimes in a free society one must live with other beliefs or ideas that are contrary to their personal ones. Regardless of your thought, the party in question did nothing illegal. What you knew abouty him personally did not come about until after the fact. Popular opinion is not always right either. I give you Germany 1938. What you had was one person, who's idea's you will never change do something you did not like. Many people agreed with you, and because of this you where instrumental in harming that person, not physically, but causing them grief by getting them banned from several dive shops,again for a legal action. To make a point, a possible outcome or your campain could be a complete closing of the area. A long shot yes, but plausible. Over as far as we know, one octopus that would have died shortly of natural causes. Yes I know the result of the death of one mother carring for her eggs will mean others that will not be. If the person who took the octopus had any "knowledge" they would have known that and cared. This person did not. As difficult as it is to take, that was his right. Punishing "him" over that is more of an issue in my opinion. As has been said, some men you just can't reach. As this thread states, " How would you handle this?" Personally one man one octopus,nothing. If this is a larger problem then spread the word "folks around hear really don't appreciate harvesting", and if that does not work look for legislation. It was apparent your original speech did not affect this individual. It seems no amount of talking would. Most other folks would probably have said sorry I did not know it won't happen again. To live in a free society one must put up with a few asses. Trust me 20 years as a LEO have taught me that much. End of my rant.
 
My closing the park was sarcastic,if you didn't guess. However, it was with thought. That is the kind of result that can occur with knee jerk reactions to un-liked actions.

That I do understand. During our meeting last night at one point we were asked if anyone had any comments about the proposed courses of action on the table. I raised my hand and chimed in "let's make sure that whatever we choose to do doesn't end up getting the area closed to diving" ... I think there was consensus around the room that wasn't a desired outcome ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I assume that you have seen this story in yahoo headlines for 2 days?
 
I didn't cause him harm ... idiots who can't control their behavior based on something they read did. Those people need to be held accountable for the harm they caused.

We do disagree.

I understand your position. I have many things in my life that I am similarly passionate about. At this point, it seems that you are focusing your energy productively. But I seem to remember that your initial goal was to show a fellow diver what a [fine citizen?] you can be. You loaded the gun. You screamed fire in the crowded theater. You cast this diver in a false light - that he was doing something that was wrong when the law actually says it is perfectly acceptable to do it (this is an important point - if what he did was illegal, you wouldn't have had to resort to self-help to address your offence - but it was not illegal and was not even a grey area - holding a license, he as the right to one octo a day, male or female, eggs or not). Sometimes we have to tolerate borish people. But you took matters into your own hands with a stated pupose of teaching this fellow a lesson.

The results were predictable (forseeable is the legal word). But for you posting his picture and license plate with the plea to figure out who the diver is so you can get the word out, nobody threatens his family, nobody calls his boss so that he loses his job, nobody threatens him, etc. etc. And your call to arms was done without the knowledge that he was apparently a racist or animal abuser - all of that came later as has served as a crutch for justifying some really B.S. positions (bad fills, spearing, damage to his property and equipment, etc. - eco terrorism, anyone?).

I'm not looking for any pound of flesh from you - it's not mine to have. Nobody has wronged me here on a personal level, even those who are resorting to ad hominem arguments. But this diver was materailly, measurably wronged - if not by you, then by those who picked up the gun you loaded to prove what a [fine citizen?] you are. I thought you had owned up to that but apparently you don't. In our society, redress for wrong is properly left to the courts (or other governing bodies) and not self help. You chose self help. If presented to a judge and jury, maybe they would say you didn't cross the civil or criminal line. Maybe they wouldn't. I hope you don't have to go through that experience - but continued assertions of righteousness probably don't help your chances.

Finally, to the peanut gallery: I don't know why anyone would find it bullying or whining (two fairly incompatible expressions) to offer to help someone who has been materially wronged seek redress in the courts. This is why we have courts - so we don't pick up spearguns or otherwise take matters into our own hands. Maybe it is because it threatens a perceived right to electronically kick people in the nuts when they don't like it when someone does something the law expressly says is okay?

Frankly, I am running out of respect so I will just sign off.

db
 
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