I wonder if a BP/W setup might help me to love diving?

[Blue Sparkle]

Hi all,

I'm new here (posted a bit about me in the Introductions forum, plus a question in the Exposure Suits sub-forum).

As a quick preamble, I've loved the water all my life, and am always happiest in and around it. Grew up swimming in the lake, boating, etc.

About ten years ago, I got into snorkeling because I was in the tropics for some months on a sailboat. Wow, where was that all my life! I *loved* it. In that clear water, with all the coral and fish (I'm from the Great Lakes)... amazing.

The thing is, I *felt* like a fish! Just a thin dive skin (okay, too thin, I did freeze), mask, snorkel, and fins. Everything was mine, it all fit, and I was in my element. We spent whole days in the water, and except for wishing I'd had a 3mm suit, nothing could have been finer. Except maybe diving....

So in 2005, I took an OW class in Minnesota. The class went fine, except none of the gear fit me. But oh well, I was there to learn how to use it, and hoped it would be better when I actually went diving (this was in a lake with no vis).

Since then I've been on two diving trips, both to Florida. But you know what? It just didn't have the magic of snorkeling. I could see it had the potential, but I just felt like a big, bloated, stuffed, Michelin Woman. Nothing fit, it all shifted around, the tank was so high it kept me from being able to turn my head (even though it was as low as it could go without falling out from behind the top strap and even when they gave me a short tank), and... just... ugh. I was *not* a fish anymore.

I know I can solve the horrible wetsuit problem by getting a custom suit, but the main problem (to me) was that BC. I'm *really* short-waisted, and of course the BC wasn't, but even when I stopped at a Dive Shop (in the Keys) on my way home and tried on a women's BC (small fit me), it still seemed awful. I think because I'm so short waisted. There was just all this *fabric* and stuff jammed up under my armpits. Heck, it has no place else to go. Measuring, btw, there is about 9" between my waist and my armpit.

So okay, not to whine, but if I'm going to love diving (and I want to), I need to get my inner fish back

In searching and reading on this forum, I came across the BP/W set-up. And have subsequently read approximately 3,927 threads on it :cool2:

What I'd like to get some input on in this thread, is whether my hunch is correct in that a BP/W could help me. Here's what I'm thinking:

1) It looks like the backplates come in short sizes (small is for people under 5'3" - and even though I'm 5'5" I'm only measuring 14" from that very top neck "knob" to my waist). I'm thinking that this would help with overall fit, but also perhaps help me to get the tank down off my head?

2) I don't see all that Michelin Woman bulk that I felt with even the women's small BC.

3) If I need to tweak sizing on any of the components I won't have to start from scratch but can just tweak modularly.

4) This one I'm not sure on, but... adding weight? (In the dive class, where I had to add more weight than would fit in the BC pockets (58º so lots of neoprene), the weight belt just made it worse. There was just no place to put it except under the BC.) Now I know my projected dive situations will not have me using THAT MUCH weight, but I would like to know where I would put the weight with the BP/W set up, since there is no available "real estate" below the waist strap (anything below that just gets shoved up to my waist).

In boating I lean towards things that are basic and sturdy, and repairable with common parts. I do like good design, but just not "overdesign." I think this is another reason the BP/W is appealing to me.

For the near future, I see myself doing warm water diving, single tank, probably under 60'. Then if I "get my fish back".... who knows Otherwise, I know I'm going to want to go back to exclusively snorkeling :depressed:

Thanks ahead,

B.

PS: I should add that I am going to the Keys again in a few weeks, and unless I buy at least some of my own gear, I think I will "just" snorkel. OTOH, if I can get a wetsuit (leaning toward Liquid Fit custom suit) and a BC, I think I can be happy with the rest of the SCUBA-specific gear being rented. But... will a dive shop's regulator, hoses, and etc work if I own/bring my own BP/W setup?

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

Go for it you will be glad you did. It looks like you are considering the right things on sizing. And you are right a BP/W will cut down the bulk, put the weight where you want it and stop that tank and BC from shifting around.

Here's a link on setting it all up: http://dir-diver.com/en/equipment/backplate_adjustment.html
Some women will cross the straps at the shoulders if the find the standard straps are a bit too far apart.

 

[rstofer]

In searching and reading on this forum, I came across the BP/W set-up. And have subsequently read approximately 3,927 threads on it :cool2:

What I'd like to get some input on in this thread, is whether my hunch is correct in that a BP/W could help me. Here's what I'm thinking:

1) It looks like the backplates come in short sizes (small is for people under 5'3" - and even though I'm 5'5" I'm only measuring 14" from that very top neck "knob" to my waist). I'm thinking that this would help with overall fit, but also perhaps help me to get the tank down off my head?

Among others, Deep Sea Supply has backplates in various sizes. But the important thing is that Tobin (at DSS) will spend whatever time it takes to talk you through the selection. I highly recommend DSS and, yes, I have two of those BP/W's as well as some others. But I like the DSS gear the best.

2) I don't see all that Michelin Woman bulk that I felt with even the women's small BC.

That's the advantage of the BP/W. There is NOTHING that isn't required. No floaty padded straps, no extraneous pockets, NOTHING.

3) If I need to tweak sizing on any of the components I won't have to start from scratch but can just tweak modularly.

That is the big selling point. You carry just what you need.

4) This one I'm not sure on, but... adding weight? (In the dive class, where I had to add more weight than would fit in the BC pockets (58º so lots of neoprene), the weight belt just made it worse. There was just no place to put it except under the BC.) Now I know my projected dive situations will not have me using THAT MUCH weight, but I would like to know where I would put the weight with the BP/W set up, since there is no available "real estate" below the waist strap (anything below that just gets shoved up to my waist).

The waist strap of a BP/W does not go near the hips, It is much closer to the belly button! Therefore, there is some space below the rig for a weight harness. I prefer the DUI Weight & Trim Classic but I am carrying enough weight for a 7mm wetsuit. The thing about the harness is that the manufacturer recommends setting the pockets such that the top of the pocket is even with the top of the hip bone. That's pretty low, well below the BP/W waist strap.

If you plan to dive warm water, you probably won't carry 12# total. You can put SOME of the weight on the cam bands and carry the rest of it in a harness or weight belt. But you do want a few pounds of ditchable weight. You can choose between the Kydex or stainless steel backplate. The SS backplate weighs about 6# so that should reduce your need for lead. As long as you are wearing a wetsuit. If you dive in a T-shirt, the Kydex plate would be a better choice because you will still be carrying enough lead to overcome the Al 80 tank (popular choice at resorts).

In general, I don't like to add weight to an already heavy rig. I just don't want to lift it! The harness carries all of my weight except for the 6# backplate.

In boating I lean towards things that are basic and sturdy, and repairable with common parts. I do like good design, but just not "overdesign." I think this is another reason the BP/W is appealing to me.

For the near future, I see myself doing warm water diving, single tank, probably under 60'. Then if I "get my fish back".... who knows Otherwise, I know I'm going to want to go back to exclusively snorkeling :depressed:

Talk to Tobin. He can get you squared away and diving can be a lot more fun.

Bring your own low pressure hose and have the rental shop install it. Yes, it's a common fitting but it will be much shorter than what they have. It's ok if the hose is too long but it isn't perfect. The hose will be pushing the inflator around.

I can't come to grips with breathing out of regulators that other people have used. I also don't want to swim in a previously pee'd-in wetsuit. But I would rather rent a wetsuit than a regulator. But that's just me.

Richard

 

[TSandM]

I read your post with enormous empathy. I, too, hated my original scuba gear. It was bulky, it shifted, the tank was always going somewhere I wasn't . . . The first time I dove a backplate setup, I was completely hooked.

I am also 5'4". I use a medium DSS plate, but I am about an inch longer than you are from the "neck knob" to the waist. I love the lack of anything bulky on the front of me. I also love the stability of the tank, and I love the fact that my stainless steel plate is five pounds of my total ballast.

I use a weight belt AND camband weights with my setup. (I dive in very cold water.) I find there is plenty of room for a weight belt, but my husband prefers the DUI Weight & Trim harness.

If you are diving in 58 degree water, nothing is going to get you completely back to "fish" -- exposure protection has to be thick at that temperature, and therefore one has to wear quite a bit of weight. But you can feel a lot more graceful and unhampered than you currently have, I think.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

Among others, Deep Sea Supply has backplates in various sizes. But the important thing is that Tobin (at DSS) will spend whatever time it takes to talk you through the selection.

I've just sent him a PM, thanks.

The waist strap of a BP/W does not go near the hips, It is much closer to the belly button! Therefore, there is some space below the rig for a weight harness.

I think that's part of my problem. There is NO space between my belly button (waist) and my hips. They are the exact same place :cool2: If I try to put anything lower down, it just pops right back up to my waist (since it's much smaller around). I envy people who can just keep on layering things downwards!

The thing about the harness is that the manufacturer recommends setting the pockets such that the top of the pocket is even with the top of the hip bone. That's pretty low, well below the BP/W waist strap.

On you maybe; on me it's all in the same place.

Talk to Tobin. He can get you squared away and diving can be a lot more fun.

I sure hope so!

I can't come to grips with breathing out of regulators that other people have used. I also don't want to swim in a previously pee'd-in wetsuit. But I would rather rent a wetsuit than a regulator. But that's just me.

Oh but I agree! Using those rental regulators made me want to run shrieking from the room! The wetsuit too, although I did have my own dive skin on, and since the suit was a rental it only touched about 50% of me due to the fit. I guess that had its advantages....

Thanks for all the info,
B.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

Thanks, TSandM (can't seem to quote you here).

Nice to hear from someone who understands being a bit short waisted.

I should clarify that I expected to feel Michelin Woman in the 58º water, but my later dives were in the Florida Keys, once in July and once in January, and I was still just crammed with bulky, shifty gear.

What's the DUI weight and trim harness? I'll have to Google that. Maybe it's different with the BP/W, but with the BC jacket, I had no "real estate" left for a weight belt. Edited to add: Okay, looked it up. Seems like it hangs from a shoulder strap instead of being a belt.

I wonder if - even though I have no spare room - I could use a weight belt with the BP/W harness okay. I'm trying to visualize this, but if both the weight belt band and the harness waistband were thin, 2" webbing type material, maybe I could have them both in the same place (one on top of the other) and have the weights in front and the (of course) backplate in back. Or maybe there would simply be room on the harness waistband to attach weights there?

I'll also have to figure out if a steel backplate would leave me enough "extra" to have some ditchable weight.

Thanks again for your input - much appreciated!

B.

 

[divad]

PS: I should add that I am going to the Keys again in a few weeks, and unless I buy at least some of my own gear, I think I will "just" snorkel. OTOH, if I can get a wetsuit (leaning toward Liquid Fit custom suit) and a BC, I think I can be happy with the rest of the SCUBA-specific gear being rented. But... will a dive shop's regulator, hoses, and etc work if I own/bring my own BP/W setup?

OK, here is the perfect solution; go to Silent World Dive Center in Key Largo and rent a BP and wing. They also have great deals on muti-day dive packages and equipment rentals.

 

[Nemrod]

Hi all,

I'm new here (posted a bit about me in the Introductions forum, plus a question in the Exposure Suits sub-forum).

As a quick preamble, I've loved the water all my life, and am always happiest in and around it. Grew up swimming in the lake, boating, etc.

About ten years ago, I got into snorkeling because I was in the tropics for some months on a sailboat. Wow, where was that all my life! I *loved* it. In that clear water, with all the coral and fish (I'm from the Great Lakes)... amazing.

The thing is, I *felt* like a fish! Just a thin dive skin (okay, too thin, I did freeze), mask, snorkel, and fins. Everything was mine, it all fit, and I was in my element. We spent whole days in the water, and except for wishing I'd had a 3mm suit, nothing could have been finer. Except maybe diving....

So in 2005, I took an OW class in Minnesota. The class went fine, except none of the gear fit me. But oh well, I was there to learn how to use it, and hoped it would be better when I actually went diving (this was in a lake with no vis).

Since then I've been on two diving trips, both to Florida. But you know what? It just didn't have the magic of snorkeling. I could see it had the potential, but I just felt like a big, bloated, stuffed, Michelin Woman. Nothing fit, it all shifted around, the tank was so high it kept me from being able to turn my head (even though it was as low as it could go without falling out from behind the top strap and even when they gave me a short tank), and... just... ugh. I was *not* a fish anymore.

I know I can solve the horrible wetsuit problem by getting a custom suit, but the main problem (to me) was that BC. I'm *really* short-waisted, and of course the BC wasn't, but even when I stopped at a Dive Shop (in the Keys) on my way home and tried on a women's BC (small fit me), it still seemed awful. I think because I'm so short waisted. There was just all this *fabric* and stuff jammed up under my armpits. Heck, it has no place else to go. Measuring, btw, there is about 9" between my waist and my armpit.

So okay, not to whine, but if I'm going to love diving (and I want to), I need to get my inner fish back

In searching and reading on this forum, I came across the BP/W set-up. And have subsequently read approximately 3,927 threads on it :cool2:

What I'd like to get some input on in this thread, is whether my hunch is correct in that a BP/W could help me. Here's what I'm thinking:

1) It looks like the backplates come in short sizes (small is for people under 5'3" - and even though I'm 5'5" I'm only measuring 14" from that very top neck "knob" to my waist). I'm thinking that this would help with overall fit, but also perhaps help me to get the tank down off my head?

2) I don't see all that Michelin Woman bulk that I felt with even the women's small BC.

3) If I need to tweak sizing on any of the components I won't have to start from scratch but can just tweak modularly.

4) This one I'm not sure on, but... adding weight? (In the dive class, where I had to add more weight than would fit in the BC pockets (58º so lots of neoprene), the weight belt just made it worse. There was just no place to put it except under the BC.) Now I know my projected dive situations will not have me using THAT MUCH weight, but I would like to know where I would put the weight with the BP/W set up, since there is no available "real estate" below the waist strap (anything below that just gets shoved up to my waist).

In boating I lean towards things that are basic and sturdy, and repairable with common parts. I do like good design, but just not "overdesign." I think this is another reason the BP/W is appealing to me.

For the near future, I see myself doing warm water diving, single tank, probably under 60'. Then if I "get my fish back".... who knows Otherwise, I know I'm going to want to go back to exclusively snorkeling :depressed:

Thanks ahead,

B.

PS: I should add that I am going to the Keys again in a few weeks, and unless I buy at least some of my own gear, I think I will "just" snorkel. OTOH, if I can get a wetsuit (leaning toward Liquid Fit custom suit) and a BC, I think I can be happy with the rest of the SCUBA-specific gear being rented. But... will a dive shop's regulator, hoses, and etc work if I own/bring my own BP/W setup?

When you were "snorkeling' did you have a BC, thick wetsuit and heavy fins, computers, gauges, dangling hoses? I don't think you did. Is this more like you meant, without the scooter or with?

You are not going to be able to dive in Minnesota without feeling encumbered, modern equipment and diving methods as taught rely on heavy, layers of equipment, or you can learn to do without.

Or, you need to relax, study the market, purchase female specific equipment, that is form fitting, designed for the tropical and warm water diving you dream of and get stuff that fits.

For some reason, many modern (as in new) BCs carry the tanks too high and with shorter people the tank will whack them in the head over and over. Despite buying a female, extra small BC for my wife, the tank still hit her in the head even with it lowered all the way. I took the BC and built a mini-plate complete with STA into it and now the tank does not hit her in the head:

And she is happy once again:

A shorter tank will not help you, your instructor should have known that, the distance from the shoulder of the tank is generally the same for all sizes of common tanks or very similar and it is this distance that determines the tank position in relation to your head because the tank strap cannot be above the shoulder for it to grip, obviously. Look for a female specific BC with a tank cradle and straps that allow the tank to sit as low as possible, you can always adjust the tank up, it is the adjusting it downward away from your head that many BC are limited. It is poor design and perhaps to some extent, on your part, not having your own equipment adjusted to fit you.

I use a BP, when I use all of the heavy equipment, my wife dives a standard type jacket, I suspect you would be better off with a female specific conventional, lightweight BC. She is also 5'-4".

N

 

[Blue Sparkle]

OK, here is the perfect solution; go to Silent World Dive Center in Key Largo and rent a BP and wing. They also have great deals on muti-day dive packages and equipment rentals.

Wow, thanks for that! I'll be driving down, so no problem stopping. I had looked and looked online but was not able to ascertain whether there was a dive shop I could just *go* to that would have the equipment to check out or rent.

B.

 

[divad]

Wow, thanks for that! I'll be driving down, so no problem stopping. I had looked and looked online but was not able to ascertain whether there was a dive shop I could just *go* to that would have the equipment to check out or rent.

B.

Sorry, I meant elegant solution. Good luck with the fish.