If You Were Hosting a Dive Day . . .

[eponym]

If you were a dive pro (divemaster, ass't instructor, instructor) and your shop asked you to publicize and host some dive days at your local lake/quarry/river as a way of encouraging certified (recreational) open water divers to dive locally, would you have any questions for divers (recreational training and kit, no redundant sources or other special gear) who showed up in response to that invitaion without a buddy and planned to dive solo? Would you offer them any advice? Would you feel that you had any special liability in their case?

And what would be your short answer for newly-certified divers who ask questions about the soloers, never having seen anything but buddy and group dives?

I've dealt with this before but I'm looking to improve on my approach.

This is in regard to divers with OWD certs, perhaps some specialty certs, using recreational gear (no backups).

Appreciate your help in thinking about this,
Bryan

 

[halocline]

I guess it would depend on whether or not you as the host of the event had any responsibility for the divers' safety. Are you working at this event, leading the divers, or are you just being a nice guy encouraging people to dive? Another issue would be the ownership of the property on which the event took place. Does the property owner have any specific rules about the use of the site, or is he/she leaving up to the shop to provide dive leadership, or is it pretty much everyone for themselves?

I would suggest clarifying these issues with the dive shop before the event. As long as you are clearly not acting as a dive leader in the event, I don't see what kind of liability your would have.

As far as advice, I tend to withhold that (well, not on the forum, I'm afraid ) when I'm diving with others, unless they specifically ask for it or are obviously in immediate need.

If a newly certified diver asked me about the solo divers' practices, I'd just give my opinion. Solo diving is more of a risk, and should be only done by someone who has the skills and experience to do it reasonably safely. It will always be more risky than diving with a good partner, all other things equal.

But, it's not up to me to police how someone else is diving, unless I'm actually working as a DM.

 

[ams511]

I am not a lawyer but work with several each says people can sue you for anything regardless of the merit of the case. Even if you get the case thrown out it is expensive to defend. What does the agency that certified you as a DM say? I have dived solo without proper redundancy before but typically I am in no deeper than 25-30 ft and can do a surface ascent at anytime.

As far as the newbies I would just tell them as Matt says, maybe add that they should be properly trained.

 

[eponym]

Are you working at this event, leading the divers, or are you just being a nice guy encouraging people to dive? [. . .] As long as you are clearly not acting as a dive leader in the event, I don't see what kind of liability your would have. [ . . . ] But, it's not up to me to police how someone else is diving, unless I'm actually working as a DM.

Thanks, Matt, for your thoughts and some good questions.

I'm the one (and perhaps only) pro at the site for this and similar events. Not leading divers, except sometimes doing pickup checkouts for new or specialty divers. Our shop's goal is to encourage local diving (conditions are usually poor) so we talk it up as an event and hope some past students or regulars show up. Perhaps you could say that I'm acting as a shore coordinator. Certainly I'm there representing the shop.

I've talked to the shop owner about this but have not gotten much in the way of concrete guidance. So I thought to ask the one group who might have run into this situation (on the other end) from time to time.

-Bryan

 

[captain]

I believe property owners, be they land owners business owners, boat owners, etc can set any rules they want. I don't believe they can tell anyone what to do on public property other than the governing authority.
A host acting in behalf of the property owners should be able to enforce the owners rules providing the involved owners agree on the rules. Example, if the quarry or boat owner has no problem allowing solo diving then the host should not be able to override the owner.

On the high seas I believe that rules should only apply to those issues that apply to being on the boat if the dive is not a instructor guided training dive, once a diver is in the water he is in state or international waters and the boat owner should have no control on how he dives. The boat owner can voluntarily state up front no solo is allowed or have it in the liability release before the trip and the diver agrees to no solo diving in advance of the boat leaving the dock.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If you were a dive pro (divemaster, ass't instructor, instructor) and your shop asked you to publicize and host some dive days at your local lake/quarry/river as a way of encouraging certified (recreational) open water divers to dive locally, would you have any questions for divers (recreational training and kit, no redundant sources or other special gear) who showed up in response to that invitaion without a buddy and planned to dive solo? Would you offer them any advice? Would you feel that you had any special liability in their case?

And what would be your short answer for newly-certified divers who ask questions about the soloers, never having seen anything but buddy and group dives?

I've dealt with this before but I'm looking to improve on my approach.

This is in regard to divers with OWD certs, perhaps some specialty certs, using recreational gear (no backups).

Appreciate your help in thinking about this,
Bryan

As someone noted earlier you can't prevent anyone from doing a shore dive. However, you can prevent them from participating in the shop's publicized event. But you need to spell out the ground rules clearly when the dive invitation is publicized. Mention that everyone is required to sign a liability release waiver in order to participate. I believe you're SSI, and AFAIK, they don't condone solo diving ... you should mention that everyone will be required to dive with a buddy.

If someone shows up and wants to dive solo, sure they can ... just not as part of your shop dive. Don't ask them to sign a liability release waiver, as that would be evidence that they're diving with your group. Let them know that they're welcome to do whatever they please, but if they want to participate in your event, they'll need to follow the rules ... for liability reasons.

If it makes you or them uncomfortable saying so, let them know they're welcome to socialize after the dive, but because this is a shop dive, and the agency the shop represents does not support solo diving, you can't "officially" let them solo dive as part of the shop dive. They can then either join the shop dive by hooking up with another diver or do their own thing. If they do their own thing, you aren't responsible for them.

What they choose to do is their business. But since the event's organized through the shop, and you're acting as a representative of the shop and a "pro" of your affiliate agency, and you need to cover yourself and play by their rules.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[seaducer]

If you wish to not have solo diving, for what ever reason, simply inform any would be solo divers that this is a social event, and solo diving is sort of anti-social. They are welcome to dive with the group but must follow the rules you set out.

If you allow solo diving, I wouldn't offer anything in the way of advice, except to say that if advice is solicited, I would give them my opinion on whatever they ask. Of course depending on the question, you might hear some alarms about that person soloing.

If questions about solo diving were asked, I would simply answer them. Who knows, it may open up a line of communication between the shop and some interested divers and you can parlay that interest into some training and equipment sales.

If you want to have rules about redundant gear, that is your call. But however you go, I would be upfront on your position during the advertising for the event. This way no one who is paying attention can show up and be surprised.

good luck...

 

[redacted]

If you have the authority, then do what you want or need to do. No solo diving, solo diving only with appropriate gear and certification, or whatever you would like.

If this is public property with no such restrictions, it might be a good time to be prepared to discuss the planning, gear, and special considerations associated with solo diving. And maybe a few large red balloons and long strings you could recommend the solo divers attach to their BCDs to help the searchers find the body.

 

[Van Isle]

I participate in "shop" events frequently. Certain things like 60' depth limits, appropriate exposure protection, modern equipment (i.e. no vintage gear) and buddy systems are often enforced as "shop rules." If folks wish to not adhere to them, then they do not sign a waiver nor do they get on the dive roster. They're always welcome to the social aspects. It can take tact on the pro's part to disallow a diver who is keen and shows up based on the house rules, but it is pretty simple I think to say "my boss/shop/liability insurance won't allow it; besides I believe it to be unsafe for the following reasons..." You don't have to look 100% like the bad guy AND you can impart some knowledge.

And then direct folks in to appropriate buddy groups, find suitable rental gear, or recommend further training for the next time.

 

[redacted]

There are a couple state park facilities that disallow any solo diving. I respect that prohibition. Local public lakes have no such prohibition so I do as I please. One local shop tried to tell be I could not dive the lake solo. You just have to know the hand signal for "sure I can, watch me".:mooner: