Incident on 80m (avg) - 30 min BT dive

[fsardone]

Nianne, as RainPilot says.
Once you have a rough idea were the other diver is in the training progression you then check the skills in the relevant agency to see what he should already know (and review thise skills) and see what you need to add/integrate to progress to the next level in a different agency.
If skills that should be acquired are lacking proficiency, the diver is invited to build experience, before progressing (or should be!).

For just diving, opposed to training, is different. You ask the diver if he/she is confortable with the planned profile (he should since in my book each plans on his own independently and the compare notes to check for discrepancies), you check for recency in addition to training (last dive in compared/similar conditions).

If all ok then you progress to dive otherwise revise plan or choose less challenging conditions. I usually prefer to change wreck or dive (do something less challenging for me) and dive well withing the capabilities of my buddies rather then pushing their limits. My more experienced buddies feel the same when I am the limiting factor. This also allow to be coached and tutored by more experienced peers. Once at this level there is no more formal training: only experience building with people that have been there done that and come back to tell how they did it and pass along what they learned in the process.

 

[beester]

I know nothing about GUE, but maybe he didn't had the necessary training for thoses dives (and knew only a little about GUE like me). Even if he was from another agency and thought he had the same level.

TDI Equivalent Ratings with Other Scuba Diving Agencies | SDI | TDI | ERDI
I'm TDI deco procedures and apparently it's the equivalent of tec 1, but I actually have absolutly no idea how to do a normoxic dive !

Like rainpilot and fsardone said. I'm not qualifying you for a dive (not training) only you can do that. You as a diver need to know what your limits are both from certification and experience point of view.

Let's say I'm a GUE T1 diver and you are like you say TDI deco procedures. I'm inviting you on a dive to a 51 m wreck and I want to dive the wreck using a 18/45 trimix as bottom gas and a 50% as deco gas, we plan to dive for about 25' bottom time and 30-35' of deco. It will be an easy dive, good vis, not too much current.

I'm not going to ask your cert cards and compare your limits to my "T1" cert. You have all the details to estimate if you are within your experience / certification to make that dive and need to speak up if not.

What are you going to do? Say nothing while you know that your TDI deco procedure course while from TDI point of view is the same as T1 has no normoxic trimix training, is exceeding your depth range and max deco time? Of course not.

In our case we were initially planning for a 90m+ dive on a seaplane (this planning included diver X), we waited for the conditions to improve (mainly wind) in the afternoon but they weren't so we opted for a more sheltered shallower wreck. So in any case we were flexible and not fixed on a goal or a specific dive. I can't believe (not sure but can't believe) that diver X would hold his mouth if he was just normoxic trained to 50-60m and go on a full trimix (initial) 90m+ dive with really hypoxic gasses, a lot of workload and hassle (many stages). My assumption at this stage is until I get feedback from JJ divers is that he was full trimix trained with another agency and not intimate with some of the GUE procedures for these kind of dives. Maybe it was a pinnacle dive for him, maybe he had a bad day.

I'm pushing my friends for more info. If I get it I'll let you know.

 

[leadduck]

Finally the big risk was of course him hurting himself or us as well (with trying to help him), the big risk wasn't liability. I'm an instructor but he wasn't my student, nor was I doing a course. In this case he was our responsibility underwater like in any team, but I don't think anything would stick in a court of law.

Of course the risk of physical damage is the primary concern, and he is responsible for his actions. But I wouldn't be so sure about the court thing. I mean if you have a witness that the victim lied to you about his experience then you're safe (kind of), whereas if you learn only when it's too late that the dive was way beyond his level of experience just because you didn't ask, you may be in trouble. Depending on the local laws of course, also if you're not an instructor, the more experienced diver of a team can be held liable for taking X too far. Anyway, I don't want to blame you for X not speaking up, just saying that in general checking a new buddy's experience and training is in your own best interest for many reasons.

 

[Nianne]

It's really interesting.

At this level, you have to build experience and maybe he thought he needed to push himself further to gain confidence.

Or he did just had a really really bad day Luckily for him, you were goodly trained and all ended up safe at the surface.

 

[boulderjohn]

I know nothing about GUE, but maybe he didn't had the necessary training for thoses dives (and knew only a little about GUE like me). Even if he was from another agency and thought he had the same level.

TDI Equivalent Ratings with Other Scuba Diving Agencies | SDI | TDI | ERDI
I'm TDI deco procedures and apparently it's the equivalent of tec 1, but I actually have absolutly no idea how to do a normoxic dive !

The chart is off in a couple of places IMO. I am certified to teach both TDI and PADI tech, but the stated equivalence of Advanced Nitrox and Tec 40 is wrong as well. Advanced Nitrox by itself does not teach any decompression procedures. A graduate is not certified to do any decompression, but he or she can use 100% O2. A tec 40 graduate can do up to 10 minutes of decompression, but can only use up to 50% nitrox to do it. The equivalence of Tec 45 and Deco Procedures is valid, because by then TDI has taught deco procedures and PADI has taken the diver to 100% O2.

 

[Nianne]

That's why with TDI you don't really do advanced nitrox alone, it's a course linked with deco procedures. Otherwise people offer PADI tec 40.