Instructors, is this common practice???

[Snuff]

I will try to keep my story brief. This summer, my 16 year old son wanted to get his OW certification. We scheduled a PADI class for him during a vacation that we were taking to Florida. He purchased the books to study at home, then was supposed to take the class Fri thru Sun. When he filled out his student information sheet that was in the book, he checked that he had sustained a head injury in the past. Neither his mother nor I looked at that sheet, otherwise, we probably would have known to bring a doctors release.

The head injury that he sustained was a mild concussion slightly over 3 years ago from a fall off of his bike. He was kept overnight in the hospital for observation then sent home. When we went back for a followup visit, he was given a full release that stated that he could "participate in all normal activities". The doctor said we didn't need to see him anymore, and we have never had any other issues.

About 2 hours after dropping my son off for the class, we got the phone call that he could not participate in the pool portion of the class until we brought in a release. I was able to contact the doctors office, who faxed a copy of the original, 3 year old release to the dive center. We went to the dive center to ensure that everything was good, and we were told "This is exactly what I needed, he is fine to finish the class". Then we received another phone call about an hour after leaving, informing us that he needed a more recent physical and a release from a doctor stating specifically that he could participate in SCUBA activities. He told me that SCUBA is not a "normal activity" and that the release was too old anyways. After much arguing, I realized that I wasn't going to win the argument. Needless to say, he was not able to finish the class. Another member of the class was apparently removed for not having a physical following a broken arm!!!

So, my question is, was this particular instructor just being a jerk, or was he following PADI rules? If he was following PADI rules, then my suggestion to him is to make sure that ALL PAPERWORK IS IN PROPER ORDER PRIOR TO STARTING THE CLASS!!! If you think you're responsible enough to take non-divers and turn them into divers, then you should be responsible enough to check such mundane things as dates on paperwork, and whether certain boxes on a student form are checked or not.

My question to PADI is, assuming the instructor was telling my the truth, how come you require recent physicals when the doctor told us there was no reason to come back to his office? My argument to the instructor was that I could weigh 400 pounds, with veins popping out of my neck, and ready to have a heart attack, and if I don't put a mark in a box that I have any physical issues with the class, they will take my word for it, but when a healthy 16 year old boy comes into the class with a 3+ year old injury, and a doctors release, all of the sudden he needs more physicals to prove that he's physically capable of handling the class. He said "Thats just the way it is... if he hadn't put a mark in that box, then I wouldn't need to worry about it". According to the instructor, diving is not a "normal physical activity", so why doesn't PADI require physicals for EVERYONE entering the class them???

I'm really not sure if this is bad policy on PADI's part, or bad business on the shop's part, or just a moron instructor who can't get his stuff together. I'm actually relieved that he wasn't in this guys class. If he's no more competent than this, I'm not sure I want my son in his class!

 

[Hawkwood]

It is a requirement. The instructor has zero lee-way in this. The medical release must be within the year (not calendar).

The student must fill out the PADI/RSTC Medical Statement.

If there are any "Yes" answers to the questions, a physician must fill out their portion of the Statement:

​

This person applying for training or is presently certified to engage in scuba (self-contained underwater breathing apparatus) diving. Your opinion of the applicant’s medical fitness for scuba diving is requested. There are guidelines attached for your information and reference.

Physician’s Impression

__I find no medical conditions that I consider incompatible with diving.

__I am unable to recommend this individual for diving.​

 

[Jim Lapenta]

It has nothing to do with PADI. It has to do with what I see as a proper course of action by the instructor. All agencies require a medical statement to be filled out. In this case why did your minor son do it? Under 18 it should have been filled out by both he and you, his parents. It is clearly stated on the form that a yes answer does/may require a doctors release. With me any yes answer is going to necessitate that release being current. 3 years old is not current. 6 months would be pushing it.

As for requiring physicals when the doctor said it was ok -THREE YEARS AGO- is meaningless. The doctor is not teaching the class. I am. I have to deal with any consequences from an injury that may or may not be related to the injury, not the doctor. As a parent I cannot see why you did not read the form, see that a medical was required, and take your son for a current physical. If I were the instructor I'd hesitate to take on anyone who was irresponsible enough to not read something so important and take the necessary steps as indicated.

And if you showed up in the condition you described at the end of your post - No way would I take you on as a student without medical clearance and even at that I still might say no. In fact it's likely that I would. And any instructor that would say yes is one I'd not trust to train anyone I cared about.

And lastly had you just dropped your son off for class I would not have allowed him to start anything. Under 18 I require a parent or guardian to be there for all classroom and pool sessions. No exceptions. Parents should be aware of every aspect of what is taking place in scuba training as it is indeed not a normal sport and people die doing it. Even in training.

 

[flots am]

Not sure what's on the PADI form, but SSI lists a "head injury with loss of consciousness" within the last 5 years.

Regardless of whether it was from a bicycle or not, "head injury with loss of consciousness" is a pretty severe impact and he would need to be certified as "OK to dive" by a doctor.

They're not doing it to piss you off, they're doing it so they have some assurance that your son doesn't pass out or have a seizure underwater and die.

flots.

 

[TSandM]

The PADI Medical Statement says:

Please Answer the following questions on your past or present medical history with a YES or NO. If you are not sure, answer YES. If any of these items apply to you, we must request that you consult with a physician prior to participating in scuba diving.

It seems to me that if one reads the form and answers "yes" to any of the questions, it should be very clear that a doctor's consultation will be required before one will be allowed to dive. If there was a question as to whether the old release was adequate, asking the instructor would have clarified that the physician evaluation must be within one year.

Your son arrived for the class with the form, so the instructor obviously hadn't ever seen it before. I'm not really sure where it becomes incompetence on the part of the instructor not to have warned you that you needed a physical for your son, when he didn't know there was an issue and you didn't read the form, even though you must have signed it, as that is required.

 

[mselenaous]

Instructors (regardless of agency affiliation) have no leeway on this issue. We are not physicians nor do we play one on TV. Those few that might be, are not acting in that capacity when teaching scuba diving. Therefore we can not make judgments as to what is or isn't contraindicated. Due to the litigious nature of our culture, instructors in the US are required by their agencies to maintain liability insurance. Our liability insurance deems that we follow all of the rules, not just the convenient ones. This insurance is expensive and we don't take the rules lightly or that insurance will not protect us in the event of an incident.

Medical releases are generally good for one year unless something changes, then a new release is required. Example, my AOW student injured his back the day after our first training day and has had to postpone completion for several months of physical therapy. When his physician clears him in writing to dive, then we will proceed.

That medical release completed by the minor (hopefully with direct parental supervision) required parental signature. This implies the parent is reading what he/she is signing on behalf of the minor.

I feel your frustration. My income comes for teaching folks who are on vacation with a limited number of available days. I do all I can by sending all the required information, re-iterating the necessity of the various forms by phone and via email in advance. And yet so many times folks show up who didn't bother to prepare/read the information and I can NOT put them in the water until we have physician approval. Ever tried getting that form faxed back from a physician's office on a holiday weekend? The student is disappointed and my ability to earn a living is impacted. I'm sure the instructor did not want to turn your child away from class.

 

[DevonDiver]

If he was following PADI rules, then my suggestion to him is to make sure that ALL PAPERWORK IS IN PROPER ORDER PRIOR TO STARTING THE CLASS!!!

That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I can't think of any circumstances where opposing advice would be prudent...

 

[Wookie]

I can't really see any fault with the instructor here. The fault absolutely lies with you, the parent, who failed to read the form, which is not required by PADI alone, but is in full compliance with the Recreational Scuba Training Council, more properly the World Recreational Scuba Training Council. Any accredited certification agency in the world requires this form be filled out. If you couldn't be bothered to read the form your minor son filled out, I guess you got what you paid for.

As a dive operator I see more and more folks who just don't bother to read the terms and conditions or the fine print. The surprise really sucks for both parties. Consider that your son had a reserved spot in the class, the size of which is limited by student to instructor ratios. Others may have been turned away from attending. If you didn't pay for the class, the instructor lost a couple of hundred bucks for your son and the broken arm dude. That really hurts if you are a Florida Dive Instructor.

 

[raftingtigger]

The whole PADI medical release (and probably other agencies as well) has a number of issues. A wriggling can of worms that deserves it's own thread. In this specific case, points to think about:

1. This is a minor. A parent needed to sign the form, and is ultimately responsible for the accuracy on it. The PADI form clearly states any YES answers REQUIRE a medical release. I don't think the instructor had any leeway.

2. When filling out these forms you need to be VERY careful in what you put down. If the bicycle accident resulted in a concussion but not a loss of consciousness (You can have a concussion without losing consciousness) then the parents could legitimately answer NO to that question. An example of this is: one of my sons had a hernia repair at age 2, I answered NO to the question of "hernia". He no longer has one, and the fact he had surgery 15 years ago has no current bearing on his fitness now to dive or do any other activity.

3. No where on the PADI form could I find a time frame the medical release is valid for. Since the treating physician released the student from all further care related to the head injury this appears to meet PADI's requirements. So even needing the release then the one from the time of injury should have been sufficient. Anyone from PADI HQ want to weigh in?

 

[mselenaous]

PADI Dive Instructor Manual, 2011 page 28-29

Documentation
1. At the beginning of the course (and before any inwater activities), have student divers review, complete and sign:
• PADI Liability Release and Assumption of Risk Agreement
• PADI Standard Safe Diving Practices Statement of Understanding
• PADI Medical Statement (RSTC Medical form)Exceptions: Courses with no inwater activities, certain continuing
education courses (listed below), and programs that have course-specifi c
forms (such as Discover/Experience programs). An Adventure Dive
completed on the same day as Open Water Diver course Dive 4 is covered
by the Open Water Diver course documentation.
2. For Adventure Diver, Advanced Open Water Diver, Rescue Diver, Master Scuba Diver and Specialty Diver Courses, use the Continuing Education Administrative Document, which includes all three forms listed above, and applies to multiple continuing education courses taken within 12 months.
3. Have parent/guardian and child sign required forms for those under 18 years old.
Exception: If local law defines “legal age” as an age older than 18, parent/guardian signs required forms up to that age.
Diving Fitness
1. A “yes” response on the PADI Medical Statement’s “Divers Medical Questionnaire” section requires written clearance to dive from a physician as a prerequisite to inwater activities.
Exception: Medical requirements may vary from country to country, consult your PADI Office.
2. The physician signing the medical clearance cannot be the student.
3. Have a student diver who becomes ill or injured during a PADI course complete a new PADI Medical Statement before further inwater activities. Use the medical form screen to determine if the changed medical condition would cause the diver to check off something new on the form. If so, the diver must be cleared for diving by a physician prior to resuming inwater training.