Integrated weight vs. non-integrated

[emttim]

Oh sorry, I meant the pouches of lead shot and the weights that have no holes in them when I said 'solid' weights! But it was poorly phrased by me so sorry for the confusion.

My instructors were very pro integrated weight too but they said we should know how to work with both so we got to use both and practice with them both - which I think was a great idea. I have a weight belt as a backup, say if one of my buckles to hold my weight pockets in break, I can keep my weight on my belt instead. To me, I found it very different to get a weight belt back on at depth than a weight integrated BC so was worthwhile for me learning how to do both. And for $10 it is nice to have a backup! I use a 10 or 12L steel tank on dives, with 26lb (which is my correct weighting, I am a floater and I wear a lot of neoprene ), and I don't need to ditch much weight to start ascending so I don't think the steel tank is a worry - but I could be really wrong on this as I am just going off my own experience!

Practice taking off your BC in water, make it shallow so you can dive back down to get it if you lose a hold of it. It is really easy to stay down and not lose a hold of it, so maybe you just need a bit more practice? We had to do this in OW a lot.

We did a bunch of DM stuff including swim tests and skill practice today actually, to include doff and don, and I was able to doff and don without too much trouble. I have a much different set of viewpoints on integrated vs. weight belt now.

Ok, so if there's little to no chance of having to remove the BCD, such as no entanglement risk or an otherwise beginner to intermediate dive site, I would say integrated is probably fine. That being said, after being reminded how much of a PITA it is to keep ahold of the BCD while inverted in the water, and then get the damn thing back on, I have no argument.

The only time I'd say integrated weight is fine is in warm water diving where you're using a very small amount of weight anyway so it doesn't make much of a difference whether you ditch your weight or not. As for the cold water diving I do, I'll be looking into a DUI harness tomorrow.

That's the first mistake - placing blind reliance in the hand of a 3rd party. Also assumption that just because you stay within NDLs doesnt mean you cant get hurt or bent.

Thats only one of the many reasons i hate them.

Buddy SHOULD be there. He might not be. What if there's a current and he cant get to you? Off taking a photo? Is also trapped? Has no cutting tool? Panics ?

Entangled generally means your movement is restricted. Such gymnastic feats are hard.

Also try it in cold water while you're desperately trying to stop 30lbs or positive buoyancy from ripping away your grip on the BC. Now try that with 1 hand whilst trying to perform work.

Or it works loose on a dive after being caught or banged.

Its that absolute blind reliance on a third party again. Its got lots of people killed before now. Anyway, reach back and open the valve. Doesnt need to be removed.

Ive yet to see a single BCD on the market that can safely and securely hold 20-30lbs of lead. The number of weight pouches you see at dive sites says it all. In addition the pockets in most are a pain to restow once removed (which you do on 100% of rib dives to get back onboard) and hold the weight out from the centre of gravity making diving with a heavy WI bc akin to driving a car with a shifting load.

In warm water with small amounts of weight then WI maybe viable. I cant think of a single advantage it has over wearing a proper weight harness for all other types of diving though.

In my view most of them are at best sub optimal and at worst dangerous.

I don't see how you're relating NDLs or possibly getting bent regardless of the type of diving to integrated weight vs. weight belts. Could you clarify what you meant please?

As for the rest of your comments, I don't have a good argument against them after today, sorry.

Doff and don is a basic scuba skill like it or not, if you can easily and without effort perform a doff and don in your current configuration and maintain physical control and bouyancy control, then I guess you are good to go.

Most find it difficult without a weight belt. I generally use a weight belt. My newest super light travel rig is being set up weight integrated, wing/BP/DR weigh pockets, BUT, I am most likely going to revert to a belt.

In warm water, rash guard and swim suit and four pounds of lead, I can easily control my bouyancy with or without that four pounds of lead on a belt. In my Rubatex 5MM suit, I need quite a bit more lead depending on my plate and tanks etc. I prefer a belt there because without it I would struggle and go all spastic trying to hang on to the rig while I ballooned up, yeah, I can doff and don without the belt but it is a struggle, with the belt, it is EASY. In my 7MM Rubatex, it really becomes a challenge without the belt.

To compound the problem, some people are sinkers and some are floaters. I am a sinker, my wife floats like a cork, she is a floater. She will have more problem with a doff and don that would I without her belt. If your shaped like a pear and float like a cork, you got a problem IMO if you are weight integrated and wearing 7MM and need to doff. N

This is precisely why I'm going to go get a DUI harness tomorrow, if I can get it to fit me anyway. Seems like I have a short torso so when I tried one on with a jacket BCD over it at the dive shop in Sac, the DUI pockets were under the cummerbund for the jacket BCD so that wouldn't have worked. However, I was looking on DUI's web site and the placement of those pockets are adjustable, so I don't see why the salesman told me that it probably isn't going to be a good setup for me. Obviously, he could have sold the item to me since I wanted to try to make it work, but since he didn't I'm guessing he really did think that the harness wouldn't fit on me due to my uncommon build. I'll get a second opinion from another dive shop tomorrow, but yeah, at this point my enthusiasm for integrated weight is waning fast.

 

[String]

I don't see how you're relating NDLs or possibly getting bent regardless of the type of diving to integrated weight vs. weight belts. Could you clarify what you meant please?

Originally someone mentioned "recretaional diving" (a pointless meaningless term i hate) but also mentioned within no stop limits etc.

In reality even if you're well within the NDLs if your insecure weight pockets jettison or you fail to have the strength to hold onto 30lbs+ buoyancy whilst trying to dekit you are going up like a rocket. And you can get bent or worse regardless of adherence to NDLs.

So trying to make the point the *type* of diving is irrelevant here.

 

[Cabbie]

I have integrated and my bouyancy/trim has improved (I dive warm water only). Lost a pocket when the locking system got knocked out of position so now carry a spare when I go on trips. A PITA if you've got to get out of it and hand it up to someone but ladders or shore is ok. Want to try BP/W set up soon so need to talk to my LDS.

 

[Garrobo]

I use a DUI harness with slide-out, integrated weight holders. (Large belly, small butt.) The time-consuming procedure to re-lace the slide-outs is a pain but I've never had one offer to come undone. This harness system takes the weight off of your back and is lots more comfortable to wear.

 

[WaterFox]

The second objection I have is that the weight integration pockets often put the weight (for cold water divers, anyway) where it obligates a feet-down position in the water.

Sorry I'm a newb, but why do integrated weights (vs weight belt) make you feet down. Seems like if you move weight from you belt to the integrated pouches in your BC they would make your torso sink and thus feet would go up. I think I'm missing something here...

 

[Jrock1062]

I dive with a Dive Rite Trans Pac and I very much like there integrated weight system, the pockets are narrow so they fit very perfectly next to my hips. I use there small pockets that hold about 8 pnds each which in warm water is more than enough and when i dive cold I use soft weights that attach to the harness up near shoulders this helps with my trim and take eliminate the weight belt completely. I started using this system after i did my AOW and had to put 25 pnds on my hips. That $uc*ed the weights were moving my hips hurting and my trim was all off I like the system i use and if i need to dump its as simple as open the pocket and pull

 

[emttim]

Originally someone mentioned "recretaional diving" (a pointless meaningless term i hate) but also mentioned within no stop limits etc.

In reality even if you're well within the NDLs if your insecure weight pockets jettison or you fail to have the strength to hold onto 30lbs+ buoyancy whilst trying to dekit you are going up like a rocket. And you can get bent or worse regardless of adherence to NDLs.

So trying to make the point the *type* of diving is irrelevant here.

Ah ok, fair enough.

I use a DUI harness with slide-out, integrated weight holders. (Large belly, small butt.) The time-consuming procedure to re-lace the slide-outs is a pain but I've never had one offer to come undone. This harness system takes the weight off of your back and is lots more comfortable to wear.

Hmm, I'll have to take a look at it. I really like the idea of the harness because you don't have to deal with a weight belt and it puts the weight on your shoulders...I'd imagine that'd be less uncomfortable and it won't slip down like it sounds like weight belts do.

 

[TSandM]

Again, when I made that comment, I was not comparing the integrated weights to a belt. I was just saying that if people put all their weights in the weight pockets and don't have trim pockets or camband pouches, they are frequently obligated to stay feet down.

 

[Bottomfeeder Brodie]

I hate wieght betls. I can't even spell it right. My probe lx has very secure pockets and the quick releases are extremely secure. One problem with the BC is that they used too much velcrow on the releases. Anyway, I totally agree with the original poster that I can't see any reason to pull my BC off! I train in doing so often. I just spin it around and stick one leg in it and simulate mods and quick repairs or adjustments. Weight belts go around your waist. I dont need more stuff wrapped around me to the extent that I feel like a Borg Drone. It screws up my trim. I spread my weights out for different gear configurations so I can trim out nice. My vote is for integrated.

 

[Nemrod]

A long time advocate (and still am) of a weight belt I do accept that in a tropical/warm water configuration where the diver is wearing minimal (bouyancy enhancing) exposure wear then I do believe weight integration can be acceptable. In light of that both my wife's new tropical/warm water rig and mine are weight integrated--at the moment. N