Is Side Mount the new DIR??? Building resentment towards us as a group...

[DevonDiver]

If someone can give me a valid reason as to why SM does not belong in OW or OW classes, I would love to hear it.

I'd thought about offering SM-OW courses,but decided it was a bad idea. The reason had nothing to do with the equipment or training; but rather the certification card issued.

A diver trained in SM would have no fundamental competence in BM kit. However, they'd have a c-card that allowed them to walk into any dive center around the globe, rent BM kit and go for a dive.

If the c-card stipulated 'Open Water Diver - Sidemount Only', then I see no problem. To date, I don't think this happens with the major agencies that have approved the use of sidemount for OW training.

 

[OrangeCountyScuba]

If you are asking about somebody taking OW in side mount I have no problem with it.

If you area talking about teaching a typical OW class with all the students in side mount, then I have some questions. The point is to prepare the students in the brief time they are in class. They should be prepared for what they will face. The majority of student will go off to a resort and rent gear that is back mount in a jacket. Since that is what they will mostly see that is the first thing they should learn.

Yes, I do teach the majority of my open water classes using sidemount. I have seen a dramatic change in the level of competence and confidence teaching always neutral and utilizing a long hose. I am not sure as to why that is with any certainty but hey I am going to keep going with it cause its working great for me. I completely agree with you that students should be exposed to what they will face in the "real" world. So to that effect, whenever I teach an OW class in sidemount, I make a point of it to demonstrate to my students the "traditional" method to scuba diving as well. That being said, I find it quite interesting that since my students are learning SM from the start they kinda turn their noses up to "traditional" diving. I make a point of it to make sure they do not go around acting better than anyone else because they think they are superior utilizing SM. Ego has no place in scuba diving, everyone should be respectful of everyone else. The only appropriate time for someone stepping in, is if there is a blatant safety concern.

@kensuf
There is in fact standard ways of diving SM, within each individual agency haha. There has not been a consensus on standardizing SM for the industry as a whole. But again, I do not think that standardizing SM for the industry as a whole is necessarily good. We all know that some agencies require more from their students than others, I would like to keep it that way. I will always favor the more "intensive" courses. I just keep coming back to the same point though, if whatever system and/or standards that are being taught are "safe" then I see no problem utilizing it. Personal opinion aside, we as educators want to teach safety as the utmost important thing and not interject our own personal belief systems on our students as this usually is more about what "I think" and less on these are your options. Yes, to a certain degree we are imposing our will and beliefs but this needs to be more objective and less personal.

 

[OrangeCountyScuba]

@DevonDiver
I actually spoke to NAUI last week. They are in the process of unveiling a recreational SM course as a specialty in the Advanced class. However, they will give the option to instructors that if they wanted to teach SM in open water they would be able to. I also found something else to be interesting, as it stands right now, the standards do not prohibit the use of SM gear in OW classes and they actually do not really prohibit the use of any gear in the OW class. Obviously there are a few exceptions, but thats common sense to any scuba professional.

As to what you mentioned about the C-Card dilemma, I agree with you that there should be stipulations put into place. However, this is not to be cute or anything, most of the most prominent dive locales around the world, dont really care about C-Cards and keeping to those restrictions, i.e. deep diving w/o that specialty, drift diving w/o experience. You get my drift. So what is going to stop an OW diver from "trying out" SM somewhere on vacation. Its kinda the same thing in my mind. We just need to make clear to students that you need to stay within personal limits even if that means you cant do the "cool" dives until you have the training. BTW, you can purchase any scuba equipment online nowadays anyways, what is going to stop someone from buying the gear and self train. It all comes back to what we instill in our students after that if they want to make stupid decisions well, get used to it cause there is plenty of stupidity in the world today, thats for sure.

 

[8buck]

Well at least you all seem to have taken a few courses. Who cares what who has on? I like my dodge but I have a ford also oh and my wife has a Chevy. My garage is full of regs from different manufacturers, same with BC's or BP/W's ohhhh don't get me started on lights or fins or mask....

 

[8buck]

@DevonDiver
I actually spoke to NAUI last week. They are in the process of unveiling a recreational SM course as a specialty in the Advanced class. However, they will give the option to instructors that if they wanted to teach SM in open water they would be able to. I also found something else to be interesting, as it stands right now, the standards do not prohibit the use of SM gear in OW classes and they actually do not really prohibit the use of any gear in the OW class. Obviously there are a few exceptions, but thats common sense to any scuba professional.

As to what you mentioned about the C-Card dilemma, I agree with you that there should be stipulations put into place. However, this is not to be cute or anything, most of the most prominent dive locales around the world, dont really care about C-Cards and keeping to those restrictions, i.e. deep diving w/o that specialty, drift diving w/o experience. You get my drift. So what is going to stop an OW diver from "trying out" SM somewhere on vacation. Its kinda the same thing in my mind. We just need to make clear to students that you need to stay within personal limits even if that means you cant do the "cool" dives until you have the training. BTW, you can purchase any scuba equipment online nowadays anyways, what is going to stop someone from buying the gear and self train. It all comes back to what we instill in our students after that if they want to make stupid decisions well, get used to it cause there is plenty of stupidity in the world today, thats for sure.

Someone posted in the instructor forum a question about teaching OW students in BP/W...people need to stay with the basics until they know what they are doing.

 

[Patoux01]

Someone posted in the instructor forum a question about teaching OW students in BP/W...people need to stay with the basics until they know what they are doing.

What's not basic about a backplate?

 

[8buck]

If the rest of the new bubble makers are in typical BC and one or two are in a different configuration then when your doing a buddy check scenario then it's that much more confusing to the newbie diver. It's always been easier to know what your buddy is wearing because you have the exact same set up. But to each their own...

 

[undrwater]

Typical is a much better word than basic in terms of your post. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[DevonDiver]

Someone posted in the instructor forum a question about teaching OW students in BP/W...people need to stay with the basics until they know what they are doing.

Can't get much more basic than a BP/W

I read something recently where someone senior in PADI published specifically about this issue and that it was zero problem.

Back on topic... another example of why disinformation is retardant of progress. Similar comments often heard about sidemount. Sidemount divers retort/object/clarify/correct that disinformation. Someone always labels that response as zealotry... which it isn't, when the purpose is merely to clear up disinformation.

 

[DevonDiver]

If the rest of the new bubble makers are in typical BC and one or two are in a different configuration then when your doing a buddy check scenario...the class gets a really good practical demonstration of why the buddy check is beneficial and necessary

Fixed that for you