Is this an over-reaction/what would you do?

[Iralub]

Admins - please feel free to move if this is not the appropriate forum, I'm not sure this is classified as a "near miss".

During a recent dive trip there was a minor (or potential) incident involving another diver and I was wondering whether my response to it was an over-reaction or how would people handle something like this.

This was a dive in benign conditions - good viz, warm water, little current. 12 divers, 2 dive masters. Divers have widely varying levels of experience, between less than 10 dives and several hundred dives.

Divers get allocated to two groups of six randomly. There is no requirement for buddies or buddy checks. The person I was diving with previously is now in another group and a person from my group puts his hand up to be my buddy. He's diving with huge camera and fancy shmancy equipment.

The other group has a very novice diver - only a couple of dives after OW and those years ago. I did a shore dive with her the previous day and she had high air use and poor buoyancy control (as expected at that experience level).

Two groups meet on a wreck about 20 metres down. My buddy shoots off with his camera, enters the wreck (without indicating to me that he's doing it) and is not glancing my way even once. I try to keep an eye on him but I am certainly not going to go inside the wreck and he doesn't pay any attention to me.

After about 15-20 minutes our group leaves the wreck. I got tired of trying to chase my buddy around and he has swum off somewhere with his camera. I'm with the dive group and am perfectly comfortable.

The problem is that the novice diver in the other group got separated from her group and ended up with our group. She does not have a buddy with her. She is having some trouble with her mask, appears agitated and has breathed her tank down to 50 bar. She indicates to our DM that she's low on air.

He points her to the safety stop rope, just within visibility range (so probably 20-25m away I'm guessing) and swims off to continue leading our group. The novice diver swims to the rope by herself, hands and feet flailing. I'm watching her and she's not looking like a calm, comfortable diver! I My buddy is nowhere to be seen (not surprising), the DM has swum off and there isn't anyone looking at this novice diver.

I decide that I don't want to be the last person to have seen her alive and follow her. She's trying to hang onto the safety stop rope at around 2m depth, but is too positive. I check that she's ok, help her down to the correct depth, and we do the safety stop together, using my computer as she doesn't have one. We exchange ok signals every 30 seconds or so and I'm monitoring her air.

We come up after the SS, I make sure she's established her buoyancy. She's out of breath and exhausted. We have to float on the surface for about 5 minutes before she's ok to climb back into the boat. It seems her mask continually leaked under water and she panicked and breathed through her tank very quickly. She's very apologetic for having cut my dive short.

I'm seriously angry that a DM would send a novice diver, in difficulty, up by herself. I tell the DMs that this should not be done. And they didn't do it on subsequent dives, so they must have taken it on board.

Now I wonder if that is an over-reaction and what should a DM do in these sorts of circumstances? He does have a group to lead too.

It would not be such an issue if she had a proper buddy, but the system wasn't enforced. She was following a couple of people, but they didn't notice she was separated and I'm not sure they ever saw it as a "buddy" relationship.

My buddy came up 20 minutes later, not having noticed my absence. I declined to dive with him as a buddy subsequently.

What would people do in this sort of circumstance?
Am I over-reacting when I think that there was a real risk in sending this diver up by herself and the DM should not have done so? (I was just thinking to when I had that level of dive experience and I would have freaked out if sent off by myself).
I am also conscious that I was not able to maintain proper buddy protocol and surfaced without my buddy.

 

[BertStevens]

No you didn't over react. You saw a problem and got involved. The change in the dive masters behavior verifies this.

One of the things I've personally learned from this forum, is it's not just 1 thing that causes a fatality. It's usually a series of events. Low on air, lack of buoyancy control, exhaustion...could have all contributed to a less than favorable outcome.

I say well done!

 

[lermontov]

was this the HMS brisbane by any chance ?
im afraid its more common than it should be, if I was in that situation Id do that same regardless of whos responsibility it was- you did the right thing making sure she was ok it seems you had more time to assess her situation and correctly interpreted that she needed help/ attention
It was wrong for the DM to leave her to her own if she was struggling- Post dive id talk to management and discuss a credit towards another dive
here are some suggestion for next time

Diver A- If im able to ascertain skill levels and am happy with the buddy pairing before getting n the water i suggest that for the first dive they go where they want and I will follow second dive i go where I want and they follow me. it usually work out. If you had no intention of penetrating the wreck this would have become evident at predive discussion and would have forced a reshuffle

Diver B -id get the DM attention and give him the 'something wrong' signal point to his face then to the diver and then give him 'buddy up' signal

Ive found most of the issues that divers face come up because theres not a good predive discussion from both the the outfit running the show and between the buddy your with

 

[northernone]

First off good on you as a human to help another in a stressful situation. I'm sure she's grateful.

Buddy protocol is different boat to boat and region... as is the perceived role of a dive master. I won't comment on what it should be.

A couple observations behind my screen.

One, communication is everything, personal responsibly to define the relationship of your buddy team and how your dive plan will be executed.

Two, she's (I assume) is a certified Diver Level 2 - Autonomous Diver, ISO 24801-2, Open Water Diver and therefore is expected to have the skills required as well as the personal awareness to request help if she's exceeding her experience and training. When this isn't the case I applaud you coming to her rescue and helping stop a cascade of factors which could have ended in a fatality.

Warm regards,
Cameron

 

[CoralSeaMan]

This is not an overreaction. If the dive master is taking the role of assisting divers he/she should be paying attention to divers in need of assistance. Of course, that creates liability issues. That is precisely why they generally do not get in the water in the U.S. I am glad you did get involved.

 

[gcarter]

Admins - please feel free to move if this is not the appropriate forum, I'm not sure this is classified as a "near miss".

During a recent dive trip there was a minor (or potential) incident involving another diver and I was wondering whether my response to it was an over-reaction or how would people handle something like this.

This was a dive in benign conditions - good viz, warm water, little current. 12 divers, 2 dive masters. Divers have widely varying levels of experience, between less than 10 dives and several hundred dives.

Divers get allocated to two groups of six randomly. There is no requirement for buddies or buddy checks. The person I was diving with previously is now in another group and a person from my group puts his hand up to be my buddy. He's diving with huge camera and fancy shmancy equipment.

The other group has a very novice diver - only a couple of dives after OW and those years ago. I did a shore dive with her the previous day and she had high air use and poor buoyancy control (as expected at that experience level).

Two groups meet on a wreck about 20 metres down. My buddy shoots off with his camera, enters the wreck (without indicating to me that he's doing it) and is not glancing my way even once. I try to keep an eye on him but I am certainly not going to go inside the wreck and he doesn't pay any attention to me.

After about 15-20 minutes our group leaves the wreck. I got tired of trying to chase my buddy around and he has swum off somewhere with his camera. I'm with the dive group and am perfectly comfortable.

The problem is that the novice diver in the other group got separated from her group and ended up with our group. She does not have a buddy with her. She is having some trouble with her mask, appears agitated and has breathed her tank down to 50 bar. She indicates to our DM that she's low on air.

He points her to the safety stop rope, just within visibility range (so probably 20-25m away I'm guessing) and swims off to continue leading our group. The novice diver swims to the rope by herself, hands and feet flailing. I'm watching her and she's not looking like a calm, comfortable diver! I My buddy is nowhere to be seen (not surprising), the DM has swum off and there isn't anyone looking at this novice diver.

I decide that I don't want to be the last person to have seen her alive and follow her. She's trying to hang onto the safety stop rope at around 2m depth, but is too positive. I check that she's ok, help her down to the correct depth, and we do the safety stop together, using my computer as she doesn't have one. We exchange ok signals every 30 seconds or so and I'm monitoring her air.

We come up after the SS, I make sure she's established her buoyancy. She's out of breath and exhausted. We have to float on the surface for about 5 minutes before she's ok to climb back into the boat. It seems her mask continually leaked under water and she panicked and breathed through her tank very quickly. She's very apologetic for having cut my dive short.

I'm seriously angry that a DM would send a novice diver, in difficulty, up by herself. I tell the DMs that this should not be done. And they didn't do it on subsequent dives, so they must have taken it on board.

Now I wonder if that is an over-reaction and what should a DM do in these sorts of circumstances? He does have a group to lead too.

It would not be such an issue if she had a proper buddy, but the system wasn't enforced. She was following a couple of people, but they didn't notice she was separated and I'm not sure they ever saw it as a "buddy" relationship.

My buddy came up 20 minutes later, not having noticed my absence. I declined to dive with him as a buddy subsequently.

What would people do in this sort of circumstance?
Am I over-reacting when I think that there was a real risk in sending this diver up by herself and the DM should not have done so? (I was just thinking to when I had that level of dive experience and I would have freaked out if sent off by myself).
I am also conscious that I was not able to maintain proper buddy protocol and surfaced without my buddy.

This will sound harsh.

You did not have a buddy, nor did the guy with the camera. Let's be clear on that point.

The primary responsibility for a safe dive is on the individual diver. It is up to the individual diver to ensure the buddy system is enforced. Talk to your assigned dive partner and make a dive plan, establish whatever protocols you think necessary. If you don't like the answers, don't buddy with that individual. Or decide to dive solo, but be aware you are making a conscious decision not to use the buddy system when you do so and do not blame the lack of buddy diving on anybody other than yourself and your buddy. A DM cannot enforce a buddy system once you are underwater. You are an adult diver who has presumably been properly trained and knows the difference. You should not need to have it enforced in any case.

The DM should not have sent the young woman up on her own, particularly if she was showing signs of distress. The other DM was not doing his job when he lost a diver and did not find and reclaim her.

You did do the right thing in following her up and making sure she was safe.

 

[Steve_C]

Well done. I would have done the same except I would not have worried about chasing after Buddy A. If somebody wants to swim off and to a real penetration and we did not agree to that then they are no longer my buddy.

Only thing I would suggest is you might advise the girl to rent a refresher session and work some on buoyancy and getting relaxed in the water. Some new divers are used to swimming all the time, following a guide, following the instructor around in dives 3 4. They never actually work on getting relaxed in the water and their buoyancy and hence improving their air consumption.

 

[Iralub]

This will sound harsh.

You did not have a buddy, nor did the guy with the camera. Let's be clear on that point.

The primary responsibility for a safe dive is on the individual diver. It is up to the individual diver to ensure the buddy system is enforced. Talk to your assigned dive partner and make a dive plan, establish whatever protocols you think necessary. If you don't like the answers, don't buddy with that individual. Or decide to dive solo, but be aware you are making a conscious decision not to use the buddy system when you do so and do not blame the lack of buddy diving on anybody other than yourself and your buddy. A DM cannot enforce a buddy system once you are underwater. You are an adult diver who has presumably been properly trained and knows the difference. You should not need to have it enforced in any case.

Doesn't sound harsh at all. I was going to put buddy in quote marks to indicate that there was no proper buddy relationship, but thought that would look petty. There was not much time for buddies to talk or to do a proper buddy check. I made sure to show him how my gear worked (weights, releases etc) and asked him to at least show me how his weight release functioned. He was not particularly interested in doing so.

Yes, that should have been a very obvious clue that this buddy relationship won't work. There wasn't much to be done at that point, other than skipping the dive. In the circumstances where there were quite a few people going down as a guided group and benign conditions, I was not uncomfortable doing the dive with a "same ocean buddy".

I probably would have been uncomfortable 50 dives ago, though. I think that the dive op should at least remind people of the buddy system and allow time for buddy checks etc. The more experienced divers can cope, but it is important for novices (who might not have enough confidence or experience to discuss buddy system). There was at least one inexperienced diver who decided to not continue diving on that trip when her "buddy" abandoned her underwater (also in pursuit of photos).

For the rest of that trip I buddied up with someone else and we made a very good buddy pair.

 

[islandboysrule]

Good thread. You did the right thing!
Thanks for sharing.

 

[Steelyeyes]

I think you did the right thing. I'd dive with you any time.