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Is training needed for an OW diver to switch to necklaced secondary and primary donate?

Discussion in 'Advanced Scuba Discussions' started by MichaelMc, Jun 19, 2018.

What is needed for an OW diver to switch to necklaced secondary primary donate?

Poll closed Jun 29, 2018.
  1. Reading, advice, videos, practice

    29 vote(s)
    47.5%
  2. Informal in person mentoring

    17 vote(s)
    27.9%
  3. Tuneup by any instructor

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Tuneup by instructor who dives that way

    6 vote(s)
    9.8%
  5. Doubles/DIR class

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  6. Other

    6 vote(s)
    9.8%
  7. That is bad, so you shouldn't anyway

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  8. Not informed on teaching needs, but want to vote

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  1. MichaelMc

    MichaelMc Divemaster Candidate

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Berkeley, CA
    1,491
    811
    113
    Edit:

    What *training* is needed for an OW diver to switch to necklaced secondary and primary donate? The equipment needed is fairly simple.

    If you dive that way, maybe comment on how you learned.

    A different thread, Newbie - how do I wear a long hose for primary regulator?, was asking how to set this up, and a question was raised of whether formal training is advisable.

    For those unfamiliar, this is where *your* backup regulator is on a roughly 22" hose and is held by a bungee necklace just under your chin. The reg you normal breath from has a hose long enough to give to an OOA diver, typically 40", 5', or 7'. If you need to share you give the other diver the reg from your mouth and switch yourself to the one right under your chin. Espoused advantages are that the reg in your mouth is always most apparent and is visibly working, so its a good choice for a possibly panicky OOA diver; the reg under your chin is always there, very close to mouth for you, and is kept out of mud, sand, etc.

    -----
    This started as the below question of what formal options are there to learn that. But that seemed quickly answered, and one two-part thread is likely less messy that trying to have two separate ones.

    ----
    What are *class* options for learning to dive necklaced secondary primary donate? What is the first class someone might take where this is taught?

    Apologies if we already did this drill....

    I'm putting this in advanced as likely most knowledgeable of primary donate are reading advanced, not because I think the results are only applicable to advanced diving. (I've been diving this way for 40 or so dives, plus as many pool sessions.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
  2. tbone1004

    tbone1004 ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Greenville, South Carolina, United States
    15,885
    7,260
    113
    we teach it at OW. A lot of instructors on here do. Some agencies require it *GUE, UTD, etc*.
    Our school regulators are configured the "old" GUE way with a 36" primary with no elbow and works fine. Not ideal, but works.
     
  3. Lobzilla

    Lobzilla Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: North Carolina, Maryland
    673
    166
    43
    Take GUE Fundamentals. Best money you'll ever spend. Don't worry about the specific gear for this class. That can be rented or borrowed. And no scuba police will fine you if you change to something else later.

    There are also instructors from other agencies that offer similar classes because they believe in the value of sound diving fundamentals like trim, buoyancy, propulsion, awareness, team communication. A long hose is not going to help much if your buddy is miles away when going OOG. The long hose and other gear configuration is part of an overall safety philosophy that is worth understanding as a whole.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    eelnoraa and rgdiver1 like this.
  4. MichaelMc

    MichaelMc Divemaster Candidate

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Berkeley, CA
    1,491
    811
    113
    Yeah, but you, and most university based classes, like mine, are a bit on the odd side. What agency is your OW done under?
     
  5. MichaelMc

    MichaelMc Divemaster Candidate

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Berkeley, CA
    1,491
    811
    113
    I, the OP, already dive primary donate! I'm curious for others where they can first learn this.

    Because agency Y always teaches it in class Z.

    Or, from some cool instructor that happens to always teach it in class X, under agency W.
     
  6. tbone1004

    tbone1004 ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Greenville, South Carolina, United States
    15,885
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    NAUI

    Now, technically every agency and every instructor has to teach primary donate at some point to accommodate AirII's which the vast majority of shops/instructors sell and have to teach at some point. Only difference is where the diver goes to retrieve the secondary, but the important part of that skill is primary donate. So it answers the second part of your OP, but not the first. It is more easily translated than going from secondary donate to primary donate though
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    MichaelMc likes this.
  7. Pkishino

    Pkishino Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Sweden
    216
    93
    28
    Under RAID I teach it from OW. My class uses only bp/w and longhouse from the start. Once completed they can try a jacket / octo setup.. If they really want to
     
    MichaelMc likes this.
  8. MaxBottomtime

    MaxBottomtime Divemaster

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Torrance, CA
    8,882
    8,085
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    I asked someone who wore their gear in a Hogarthian fashion and they explained it to me. There are also photos and videos online that show the simplicity of it. I don't think a class is necessary to learn something that could be explained in a couple of minutes.


     
    geoff w, Centrals and MichaelMc like this.
  9. tbone1004

    tbone1004 ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Greenville, South Carolina, United States
    15,885
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    ours have bp/w and long hose in class. For OW they rent from the dive shops which are pretty much always "standard" regulators and jacket bc's. We do OWT prior to the end of the year so they have a couple classes left in the pool and they always complain about the gear they had to rent and how much better the schools gear is. We want to have them rent so they have the experience using rental gear and with dive shops which we feel is important for the gear and overall experience
     
    MichaelMc likes this.
  10. MichaelMc

    MichaelMc Divemaster Candidate

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Berkeley, CA
    1,491
    811
    113
    Excellent, thanks Max.

    That is not yet the question though. The first question is where can you learn it formally.
     

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