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Is training needed for an OW diver to switch to necklaced secondary and primary donate?

Discussion in 'Advanced Scuba Discussions' started by MichaelMc, Jun 19, 2018.

What is needed for an OW diver to switch to necklaced secondary primary donate?

Poll closed Jun 29, 2018.
  1. Reading, advice, videos, practice

    29 vote(s)
    47.5%
  2. Informal in person mentoring

    17 vote(s)
    27.9%
  3. Tuneup by any instructor

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Tuneup by instructor who dives that way

    6 vote(s)
    9.8%
  5. Doubles/DIR class

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  6. Other

    6 vote(s)
    9.8%
  7. That is bad, so you shouldn't anyway

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  8. Not informed on teaching needs, but want to vote

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  1. MichaelMc

    MichaelMc Divemaster Candidate

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Berkeley, CA
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    Thanks Patrick.

    Under RAID is there a class where it is first alway taught.

    Though I am starting to feel take X class is less the answer that take 'refresher' or 'tuneup' with a knowledgeable instructor that uses necklaced secondary primary donate. *If* formal is desired, which is not yet the question.
     
  2. tbone1004

    tbone1004 ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Greenville, South Carolina, United States
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    and that I think is simply answered as any agency taught in this country, at the basic OW level. You can NOT learn it from BSAC as they believe in secondary donate firmly due to a myriad of reasons that I agree and disagree with, but you CAN learn it from all of the major agencies globally.

    From most agencies, it is not "always" taught. You can't primary donate in sidemount, and can't in a rebreather. Outside of the "DIR" oriented agencies *NAUI Tec, GUE, UTD, ISE, etc* that actually mandate a specific equipment configuration, the others just say you must have a long hose that can be donated for a single file exit.
     
  3. Pkishino

    Pkishino Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Sweden
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    Raid is moving towards standardising bp/w longhose.. Currently I don't know any instructors that don't teach like that, but it is still allowed
     
    MichaelMc likes this.
  4. rhwestfall

    rhwestfall Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: "La Grande Ile"
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    The first place I "learned" it was a NAUI technical configuration primer (forgot the specific name). I was "self taught" with an Air2 25+ years ago, and I was self taught long hose/necklaced second, introduced to it when I joined ScubaBoard some years back, and looked at some YouTube videos.... Dove it a few years before taking my tech classes. Nobody around here dives that way besides me, and my buddy whom I converted....

    All training around here is old style with two 40" seconds...
     
    MichaelMc likes this.
  5. Lobzilla

    Lobzilla Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: North Carolina, Maryland
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    Yes, a reasonably intelligent person can learn how to donate from a long hose without taking a class.

    However, there are a couple little details that can make a big difference.
    • Holding the mouthpiece down while moving the primary towards the OOG diver and then turning it towards his/her mouth will save precious time.
    • Ducking your head in the beginning of the donation will prevent your mask from being ripped off
    • Taking your time when transitioning to the backup and purging it properly will save you from having to cough out water.
    • Folding the long hose into a loop makes it easier to get it back over the head.
    • Pulling the long hose loop stuffed under the waist belt backwards towards the plate prevents it from slipping out.
    • Clipping the primary off when it is not in someone's mouth or hand will prevent a serious rubber snake pit.
    • ...
    Plus, as mentioned before, the long hose is one part of a bigger picture that is worth understanding. Whether Joe Diver then agrees with these tenets or not is his choice but it would be better if s/he could make an educated choice.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    Ayisha, MichaelMc and Lorenzoid like this.
  6. tbone1004

    tbone1004 ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
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    @Lobzilla and don't use a 5'/7' hose with a snorkel on your mask....
     
  7. Lobzilla

    Lobzilla Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: North Carolina, Maryland
    673
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    LOL
    Plus probably another dozen potential blunders that are not covered in the videos.

    BTW: My snorkel is screwed to a rafter in my dive den as a reminder not to buy anything without understanding its long term value (or lack thereof).
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    RyanT and Lorenzoid like this.
  8. MichaelMc

    MichaelMc Divemaster Candidate

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Berkeley, CA
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    I, the OP, changed the title and question to 'what is needed ...', and added that as a poll. Tbone's response that any OW class must be able to teach primary donate, given the existence of Air2's, is well taken.

    Thanks all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
  9. tbone1004

    tbone1004 ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Greenville, South Carolina, United States
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    I voted 1 as I think that's the highest priority, but it's a tossup between the two. If you have #2, then #1 isn't necessarily needed since #2 will take care of that bit. If you don't have #2, you can obviously do it with #1, but like learning sidemount without an instructor, you'll come across some little nitpicky stuff that would not have been an issue if you had #2
     
    MichaelMc likes this.
  10. PfcAJ

    PfcAJ Orca

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: St Petersburg, Fl
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    I think a little time with someone who knows what theyre doing would be helpful.

    Its not hard to find people who watched a video or read an article by god-knows-who that totally miss the mark. I saw a guy with the long hose wrapped repeatedly around his neck. Farm animal.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018

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