Jacket BCD vs. Backplate/Wing

[fisheater]

NO BCD will keep an unconscious diver's mouth out of the water at the surface. If that's what you need, you should reconsider whether diving is right for you.

Having dove with BP/Ws in both cold and warm waters, I've never had any issue with having to fight any tendency to put my face in the water at the surface.

Under the water, I find BP/Ws to help a great deal with trim and efficiency, not to mention comfort.


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[DennisS]

The only reason I can see for a new diver to use a jacket over the wing is that it forces him to float face up.

It's very comfortable on the surface when inflated. I get more drag from my mesh lobster bag or camera housing than any BC. Jacket BCs work fine, sometimes I use a BP/Wing, sometimes a Transpac, sometimes a SP jacket. Jackets don't have to have a bunch of bells and whistles anymore than a BP/Wing needs a canister light.

 

[scubadada]

A valid point, but it's from the perspective of an enthusiast. I'd bet the average diver (who is the target of the magazine) just doesn't care.
They don't care that they can replace the webbing if it wears out or gets cut
They don't care that plastic buckles are a potential failure point
They don't care whether their fin has a split in it (gasp!)
They don't care that 45 lbs of lift is way more than necessary for Caribbean reef diving
They don't want to figure out how much lift they need (most are probably happily oblivious to the fact that it's even an option)



They don't want to decide whether to use an STA or not (they probably don't even care to know what one is)

What they do care about is that they can walk into a dive shop, buy something and put a tank on it. No assembly required, no wing lift charts to fill out. And for most people that's not really a bad thing (assuming they are competent enough to be safe).

Using bicycles as an example - One can build a much better bike buying an individual frame, wheels, crank set, gear set blah blah blah. But the average bike owner (of which I am ) just wants to walk into a bike store and leave with a bike they can ride it around.

And you would know due to your extensive experience?

Good diving, Craig

 

[scubadada]

At least from looking around the Pacific Northwest, I'd say that an awful lot of cold water divers will eventually move to a backplate system. I got out of my car at a local dive site one day, and walked from one end of the parking lot to the other (to get to the restrooms). To my amazement, of all the gear set up in the backs of cars and trucks, almost ALL of it was backplates. (And no, this was not Cove 2, and this was NOT a Tweak or any other DIR diving thing. It was just totally random divers.) If you dive here, you rapidly figure out that one of the yuckiest parts of diving is the sheer amount of ballast you have to haul around, due to heavy exposure protection. When you learn that using a backplate usually means about three pounds less total ballast, and five or six pounds of it off your belt or out of your pockets, this becomes an extremely attractive thing. People who are actively diving run into folks using backplates and learn this, and change their gear. That's what happened to me, too. I'd just as soon not have bought the back-inflate BC I started with, because I sure didn't get what I paid for back when I sold it, but I'd never heard of a backplate, and in our shop, that's considered "tech s***"..

On the other hand, I use a little jacket BC that we bought in a group purchase when I'm DMing for the shop, and with minimal exposure protection and a small tank, the thing's fine. Of course, if I go head down, the first stage clonks me in the back of the head, and it's rather low on attachment points for clipping off gauges or regulators (or anything else), but otherwise, it's a perfectly usable BC.

I don't think everybody needs to dive a backplate, but I think everybody CAN, and my objection to the original article was that it implied that it took some kind of special experience or training to use one.

I have hundreds of dives all over the Caribbean. I can count on 1 hand the number of divers using BP&W. On the other hand, it is not uncommon in SE FL. These threads on SB have incredible participation bias.

Good diving, Craig

 

[scubadada]

Another observation I have noticed over my few years on SB is that many BP/W users seem very passionate/aggressive about trying to convert others to using a BP/W while those that use either a Jacket or BI (and I know a BP/W is a BI) BC seem to be more "live and let live" about what BC folks use. Why do I say this? Simple. Check out most of the threads where a diver asks about what type of BC they should get and watch the responses. If a diver asks specifically a question like this about jacket bc's:

"I'm looking at getting my first set of gear and I'm trying to decide between Brand X BC vs Brand Y BC. Which would you go with?"

Within the first 3 or 4 posts, sometimes even the first post, someone will post and say something to this effect, "Let me save you the trouble of making a mistake by buying either of those. What you want is a BP/W. If you buy what you are looking at, you'll eventually sell it on e-bay and move up to a BP/W. Let me keep you from making the mistake I made and wasting your money."

I wish I had a dollar for every time I've seen that type of response! The thread will usually just turn into a "Why you don't want that and why you do want what I'm telling you." It becomes hard to even give the person the advice they were looking for because they get bombarded with getting a BP/W.

Now what happens when it's the other way. What happens when a person says this.

"I'm looking at getting a BP/W and can't decide between a Dive Rite vs this vs that. What do you guys think?"

You'll practically never, if ever, see the Jacket or BI users come on and tell the person they shouldn't buy a BP/W. They leave the discussion of which BP/W to buy to those who care or to those who have good input about BP/W's. They don't try and hijack the thread and turn it into why a Jacket/BI BC is better.

But the BP/W users just can't seem to be able to help themselves. They are overpowered by some force that makes them go all out to convert the poor misguided Jacket user who just doesn't know any better.

Kind of like religion?

Good diving, Craig

 

[scubadada]

I think it's wintertime, and too many people just need to go diving (myself included!)

I've gotten in 40 dives on East End Grand Cayman since early Oct, not my problem

Good diving, Craig

 

[scubadada]

These polarized threads on SB on not my favorite, how about you?

Good diving, Craig

 

[DevonDiver]

These polarized threads on SB on not my favorite, how about you?

Craig... do you need the pros and cons of jacket BCDs explained to you? Do many divers?

As you've stated, BP&W is relatively unheard of in many areas. There is generally a low level of awareness about the characteristics, pros and cons, of BP&W systems. This is because BP&W for recreational 'single-tank' diving is a relatively new evolution in the scuba industry/community. Most scuba students do their training in rental jacket-style BCDs and are subject to the influence of 'opinion shapers' in the form of dive professionals. Many of those dive professionals have no practical experience in alternatives to jacket-style BCDs.

As such, those divers who use, and favour, this design of BCD tend to contribute more information about their experiences with them - for the benefit of more fully addressing the education of divers who wouldn't otherwise hear about the option, or would be subjected to inaccurate and misleading speculation about that equipment's performance characteristics.

There is also the trend that the vast majority of divers who gain some experience using a BP&W tend to become keen advocates for recommending that equipment. That trend is very telling.

The sum result is that many BCD related threads here on Scubaboard do appear polarized in support of BP&W style BCDs. However, when looking at the bigger picture, this can only be seen as an attempt to address the huge polarization, through ignorance, within the wider scuba community towards the advocation of jacket-style BCDs.

 

[Griffo]

I ran out and bought a jacket BCD when i got certified, never having heard of, nor having seen a BP/W. Probably because the LDS's make far more selling a $1000 BCD then they do a $300 BPW setup.

The jacket was fine when warm water diver, but once moving to a colder climate, I found the combination of thick suit, hood, gloves, jacket BCD and all that weight was just claustrophic. I became a "christmas tree" diver with stuff hanging off me everywhere, and found the all-round inflation together with all the other stuff made me feel more like Michelin man than anything approaching a streamlined diver.

I took the punt and tried out some HOG setups. The difference in unbelievable - so much less bulk and more free feeling, much cheaper, and better trim characteristics. I can see why people are passionate about the change.

If anyone wants a cheap Pro-QD BCD in Medium, it's currently on e-bay

 

[RonFrank]

I dive a BP/W as I like the 12lbs I can remove from my belt when diving dry. I like my Zeagle Stiletto for warm water diving. I like the rip cord Weight system and pockets. It is also more compact to travel with vs. a BP, and more comfortable topside.

Our biggest LDS (A1) uses Zeagle BCD's for the pool training. Most instructors also dive Zeagle by choice. Seems to me most divers I know use back inflate BC's, or BP/W. Few I know use jackets, however I know they are popular. Heck NetDoc is diving one on occasion.

On the Peace Diveboat the crew dove two jackets, one back inflate, and one BP/W. The Coz DM's dove mostly jacket style BC's but I did see a few Back inflate and BP/W's. A lot of experienced divers are diving a mix of BC's. There does not appear to be one prevailing style among rec divers. So much for you theory.....