Jacket BCD vs. Backplate/Wing

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Every time I dived, the inflator hose was dangling behind my back and I had to reach behind to grab a hold of it. There was nothing in the harness that would secure the hose up front. I was shown much later that you have to buy a clip and then clip the d ring in the front.

Whoever gave you this piece of advice was way off the mark, IMO. I have never heard of anybody putting a clip of any sort on their inflator. A simple loop of bungie run under the chest d-ring is enough to keep the hose close to the chest, and give you plenty of room to move the hose around to vent.

mexlin, in answer to your question, Peter starts all his private students off in backplates, and we have had no problems with the gear remove/replace skill, either in the pool or in open water. The key is properly adjusting the harness, so that it is not too tight.

We really must not conflate equipment and skill . . . a skilled diver can dive beautifully in almost anything, and the best equipment won't make a superb diver out of a novice. I didn't even write to the magazine to tell them I thought a backplate system was PREFERABLE for new divers (although I think in cold water, it is) but only to say that dismissing such a rig as unduly complicated was unfair and inaccurate.
 
Oh...wow...what would we ever do without ditchable weight pockets?? And most times I see someone diving a jacket BCD with lots of accessories they have stuff hanging off every which way, dangling back and forth, trashing reef, scaring fish, and raising my heart rate! Those pockets that are "useful"?? Buy a BP/W, take the money you saved on a top-end Jacket BC and buy a pair of X-Shorts: way more storage space and WAY easier to get into when they are jam-packed.

I really don't care what people dive, but it is encumbent on the diver to pick equipment that is functional in a full spectrum of uses and 90% of things I see in the average dive shop are not designed with that in mind. Giant lanterns that take up a whole hand to use, you can't really stow them well, and the light output for their size SUCKS?? Freakishly huge consoles that are hard to read and use effectively?

And yes, it would be difficult for divers to accomplish the dives they are doing today on the technology of 30 years. But needs were identified and, luckily, products were designed that met those needs, as well as being constantly improved on. But some things can't be improved upon much (a backplate will always be a backplate, you're not going to revolutionize them much IMO) whereas there is tons of improvement to make on other products (I would love a 50w HID light with a 20-hour runtime that is no bigger than a penlight, but thats a LONG LONG way off) and some products have simply, IMO, stagnated.

Peace,
Greg

Greg,

You do have a flair for drama.

Please note that my description of today's BC's especially the ones that are used for tech. diving doesn't mean that I am this type of configuration or not. I was only commenting on the difference of today's BC's compared with the ones I used in the late 70'2 early 80's and the evolving role the BC in its many formats is taking place now. One of my points is that the BC is being used more than just a buoyancy compensator and tank holder now.

I am content with my Classic no problem. I am looking for a Back flotation BC to fit my dry suit since my Classic isn't comfortable with the dry suit, otherwise, Classic all the way. I don't think that there is a simpler, more versatile, safer and more durable BC for my type of diving and the greater majority of recreational divers than the Classic.
 
I dive a BP/Wing and I have grown to love it. It takes less space in the luggage and is the most simple and basic set up you can have. BUT ... there was a learning curve to it.

1. After being converted to the dark side by the BP Wing lobby on scubaboard, I purchased the a BP wing and realized that flotation experience at the surface was totally different. A fully inflated wing kept pushing my face closer to water surface. If I was given my very first scuba lesson in that set up, I would have a hard time even listening to the instruction. Then I started to roll over and lay flat on my back at the surface while looking at the sky. It became fun from there on!

2. BCD comes with all the contraptions needed to secure dangling items like octo, computer and inflator hose etc. My wing had nothing! Every time I dived, the inflator hose was dangling behind my back and I had to reach behind to grab a hold of it. There was nothing in the harness that would secure the hose up front. I was shown much later that you have to buy a clip and then clip the d ring in the front.

3. When the inflator hose was clipped to the d ring in the front there was once when I was unable to unclip it during a cold water dive because of 5 mm gloves. The clip button would not press because the damn gloved were so thick! I had to remove my gloves to unclip the hose from the d-ring. Finally I got rid of press-release clips and started using elastic cord to connect the inflator hose to the d ring.

4. I wanted to change the harness webbing and took my wing to LDS. I asked them if they could put a new webbing into the BP/Wing. The guy who worked there for years said he could never rig a BP wing! He said I can sell you the webbing but you would have to go on youtube and look at the videos. After many attempts you will be able to get the d rings where you would actually want them. This guy was a dive professional and he was telling me he could not put the basic webbing into a back plate. I told him I don't have time for you tube and all that and I have a dive the next morning. He then called a scuba instructor in his shop who was also a tech diver. She fitted the webbing but did it wrong!

5. Next day when I was doing my drysuit checkout dives, the webbing had to be re-adjusted. This caused the d rings to move an inch from where they were before. Not a big issue but gave additional things to fiddle around with moments before an instructional dive.

After all this hassle, I have figured out my set up and am comfortable with it. It enables me to sink with less lead, results in better trim and does not cause the tank to ride up. It gives awesome tank stability and above all, it is smaller and easy to transport to places. I dont think I would go back to a jacket. Yet there was a learning / adjusting curve to it.

What may look "simple" in a picture may not be "simple to dive with" the first time.

Cheers -

Sinbad


Just curious, but was the BP/wing your first setup, or were you used to using a jacket style BC before you got it. Also, were you new to diving when you got the BP/wing setup? I don't have an opinion either way because the only style I've ever used it the jacket style, but I can say - especially for a new diver - that there is a learning curve with whatever style you decide upon. I've used the jacket style rental BC and I have a back inflate (Oceanic Excursion) on order, so I'm fully expecting to have to deal with adjusting fit, making weight adjustments for trim, getting used to back inflate, etc.
 
On a completely unrelated note...I LOVE the idea of Discover Scuba and Scuba Birthday parties for kids 10-years and over. I'm trying to think about everything that goes into planning and actually conducting one of those parties, but so far, all I'm ending up with is a headache! That just makes what you're doing all the more remarkable, though.

It's an absolute ball!

I really love being a part of someone's first scuba experience, especially kids. And these programs are so different than being part of someone's CW Dive #1" because those folks are in a class, and have the fear and trepidation that goes along with "learning" and being "evaluated." DSD's and Scuba Parties? People are just there to try something fun. They are more relaxed, and in many ways more open to learning than folks "in a class." Few bigger smiles than a 10yo coming up after their first lap around the pool on scuba.


/Hijack
 
These threads are always interesting, but some participants seem to miss an obvious point. Gear manufacturers that stay in business make what they can sell and the marketplace has a way of sorting things out notwithstanding advertising or distribution channels. If one system is clearly superior, it takes over. Examples abound. The diesel engine replaced the steam engine on trains, the airplane replaced the passenger ship as a way of getting from London to New York, cars replaced the Red Line in LA (no it wasn’t a conspiracy), the single hose regulator replaced the double hose, etc. Since VHS and Beta have already been mentioned, I would be remiss if I did not point out that when a truly superior device came along (TIVO) that was pretty much was the end of recording TV on VHS.

When multiple systems abound, they do so for a reason. As some have pointed out, people have different opinions about what works best.
 
The dive centre I taught at previously was stocked with rental BP&Ws. Every student on an OW course learnt in a BP&W. They learnt the extra skill of properly fitting the (Hog) harness and, after that, it was just as easy (if not more so) than teaching students in a jacket BCD. This included DSDs and kids classes.


Now this would be perfect. I have never seen a BP&W for rental. I'd love to try one but I'm not shelling out $400 to find out it's really not that much better for my pretty coral, pretty fish diving. I'm retiring after 29 years with FDNY next month & to tell you the truth, I've had enough excitement, so tech, wreck, cave just aren't happening. Maybe 10-15 years ago but not now. Vacation diving in mass quatities, in every exotic locale I can find, with my lovely bride/dive buddy in tow, is the order of the day. If tech stuff were in the cards, by all means, BP&W would be the way to go but if I didn't read here I wouldn't know there was anything wrong with my diving the way it is.
 
One of the things I always find amusing in this type of thread is how the initial photos of the two BC's are done. Many times you will usually have a stripped down BP/W vs a weight intergrated jacket. So with the jacket you already have a place for your weights, a few pockets for maybe an extra mask, and a few O/D rings to clip things off to. With the BP/W, it doesn't appear to have any of those. I don't dive a BP/W but I assume you need to add to the picture maybe weight pouches or at least wear a weight belt if there's not enough weight in the backplate, add some type of pockets or maybe pouches for that spare mask or whatever, and then add the O/D rings as well.

Just how many time does the BP/W user actually dive with just what's shown in the picture? To me, the initial photos never really do a comparison justice.

Funny, my bp/w is set-up exactly like the picture, d-rings and all. I might add a couple of weight pouches to my cam bands so I'm not carrying around as much weight on my weight belt when I'm wearing lots of neoprene, but that's it. The only gear I have attached to my bp/w is an smb, spool, whistle, and spg. That's the only gear I ever had attached to my jacket bc as well. Even though my jacket was weight integrated, I prefer a weight belt.
The reality of it is, you don't need a whole lot of extra gear while diving. Unless you're night diving, in a wreck or cave, and maybe poor vis, a light isn't exactly necessary. I took a slate on a couple of dives with me. It was more hassle than it was worth. The reason I switched to a bp/w was for the simplicity of it all. I haven't been diving all that long, but from what I've seen, much of the extra bells and whistles that companies market are not needed.
 
Problem with the BP/W is that the diver never EVER feels their BC inflating.
With a back inflate you sorta feel the inflate, right before the BC auto purges, with a jacket you feel the inflate immediately.

New divers will not always be able to adapt to this lack of feel easily.
A BP/W places more emphasis on technique, ability, buoyancy, and trim characteristics that just aren't present in a typical new diver.

Setting one up and using one effectively is like rocket science to someone who's never even seen one. And before the BP/W users jump down my throat, just think about it.
When you were certified did you ever think of things like tying down your danglies with bungee or inner tires? No.
Did your basic instructor teach you the proper way to clip something onto your shoulder D-ring? No
etc etc

Without any experienced BP/W diver as a mentor, a BP/W for a new diver is a horrible choice IMO.

Having said that however, using one is not hard if you have someone showing you the ropes.
 
I don't know, g1138. Without someone to help you learn to set it up, I think ALL scuba equipment has its issues. If nobody showed you how to put an octo in a holder, yours would hang behind you, right? If nobody showed you how to put the inflator hose in whatever velcro or other restraining device the BC has, IT would flop all over, too.

I think a new diver has to be shown how to assemble and use equipment. I don't think a backplate rig is any more difficult than anything else.
 
I've never seen a group of people so concerned over what equipment other divers use. I knew this was going to be good from the beginning. :)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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