Jacket BCD vs. Backplate/Wing

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I've never seen a group of people so concerned over what equipment other divers use. I knew this was going to be good from the beginning. :)

Its actually a good premise though: "Is a BP/W too complicated for a novice diver?" Most of the posts have been on track and on topic-

I like to think that maybe questions have been raised and answered so that some with a BP/W preference might see issues a JBCD wearer might have. I also hope that some JBCD wearers and proponents might get some good information about a BP/W and understand that they are not just for tech diving.
 
Its actually a good premise though: "Is a BP/W too complicated for a novice diver?" Most of the posts have been on track and on topic-

I like to think that maybe questions have been raised and answered so that some with a BP/W preference might see issues a JBCD wearer might have. I also hope that some JBCD wearers and proponents might get some good information about a BP/W and understand that they are not just for tech diving.

It was an interesting topic the first few hundred times it was rehashed. You get strong feelings on both sides and it always makes me chuckle. People are so passionate about equipment not just for themselves, but for others, too. The splits vs paddles threads are equally entertaining. By all means, keep it going. :popcorn:
 
I don't know, g1138. Without someone to help you learn to set it up, I think ALL scuba equipment has its issues. If nobody showed you how to put an octo in a holder, yours would hang behind you, right? If nobody showed you how to put the inflator hose in whatever velcro or other restraining device the BC has, IT would flop all over, too.

I think a new diver has to be shown how to assemble and use equipment. I don't think a backplate rig is any more difficult than anything else.

As a new diver though you're usually trained in the typical jacket BC. You've dove with it, you've set it up, and you've probably seen many others using it.
Also with the inflator hoses on typical jacket and back-inflate BC's you don't tie down your inflator, you DO infact just let it flop around.
It's not perfect, but I believe the excessive padding, clips, straps, the whole lot, it provides a lot of comfort to a new diver. You'll have an example of how to rig your jacket BC because you were trained in one.

When I first started, I just didn't feel safe buying a BP/W, because it looked so simple. One inflator, one butt dump, a continuos thin strap with no quick releases!?
Stainless Steel bolts holding it all together? Is it going to rust like my knife? No one ever told me. I didn't even want to ask. It was alien to me and out of my comfort zone.

I wanted pockets, I wanted more D-rings, I wanted retractors and plenty of other things. I had no idea you could customize one to your liking or that you could add to it and what not.
No one ever told me. And I'm pretty sure if someone did, it would be too daunting to take to it all on by myself.

And I will say that a BP/W rig is a little more difficult to set up. I just had a friend who purchased one and had no idea how to even get the straps set right. So it is more difficult to start then say a jacket which is ready to go straight out of the plastic wrap.
My friend had to be told where the straps went, how tight they should be, where the plate should sit, how to set up a crotch strap, how to adjust the straps once you finally tested it in the ocean etc etc.
And that was just a simply HOG harness.


Now don't get me wrong, the very next big purchase I make IS going to be a BP/W.
And if anyone ever asks me which BC to get, I'll tell them BP/W, because down the road you're going wish you had one. And I'll gladly point them to my nearest friend who dives one so they can get all the info they need.

But in general unless you have someone to show you the ropes on using a BP/W effectively, then I'd say it's too much to handle for a new diver.

Jacket BC's are simplistic in that you can only customize it in set configurations.
Where as BP/W's are a lot more customizable, there's a lot more things you have to worry about on top of just diving.
 
Just curious, but was the BP/wing your first setup, or were you used to using a jacket style BC before you got it. Also, were you new to diving when you got the BP/wing setup? I don't have an opinion either way because the only style I've ever used it the jacket style, but I can say - especially for a new diver - that there is a learning curve with whatever style you decide upon. I've used the jacket style rental BC and I have a back inflate (Oceanic Excursion) on order, so I'm fully expecting to have to deal with adjusting fit, making weight adjustments for trim, getting used to back inflate, etc.

BP/Wing was the first set up I purchased. I had 23 dives before that and was renting jacket styles BCDs. I dont think there will be any adjustment issues with the Oceanic Excursion because it is not BP/wing. It is a back inflate BC which gives you an air cell at the back with most features of a jacket. You will not have to deal with threading or inserting d rings etc because that is all there from the manufacturer. It will push your face closer to the water on surface because an air cell at the back tries to keep you horizontal above the water too. It is not anything unmanageable. I think you will have fun with that BCD.
 
Now this would be perfect. I have never seen a BP&W for rental. I'd love to try one but I'm not shelling out $400 to find out it's really not that much better for my pretty coral, pretty fish diving. I'm retiring after 29 years with FDNY next month & to tell you the truth, I've had enough excitement, so tech, wreck, cave just aren't happening. Maybe 10-15 years ago but not now. Vacation diving in mass quatities, in every exotic locale I can find, with my lovely bride/dive buddy in tow, is the order of the day. If tech stuff were in the cards, by all means, BP&W would be the way to go but if I didn't read here I wouldn't know there was anything wrong with my diving the way it is.

Come up to Dutch Springs for the Halcyon or DiveRite demo days and try a BP/W out for free.
 
In PADI's 2011 Gear Buyer's Guide, there is an article on page 15 "Buy Smart." This article recommends "10 simple strategies for making the best purchase possible."

Recommendation #3 states that a backplate/wing (BP/W) is "not a great choice for a new diver. It's best to keep your kit simple..."

I have more than 250 dives with each of the following configurations:

BP/W with and w/o a weight belt as needed(my current setup)
jacket bcd with weight belt (what I started with)
jacket bcd with integrated weight pockets (dive in an aquarium every other week with)

I have to say, if we disregard the initial setup, I do not find one easier than another. I fail to see either side of this debate as being correct. They are all fairly intuitive to put on and adjust. Obviously the BP/W comes in pieces and needs to be assembled, although if you buy it at a shop they will probably hook you up with that.
 
I've never seen a group of people so concerned over what equipment other divers use. I knew this was going to be good from the beginning. :)

That's funny, because in this thread I can't see anyone "showing concern over what equipment other divers use". :shakehead:

What I can see is a rational debate over the pros and cons of two different BCD systems... and an attempt by BP&W users to 'myth bust' some common misperceptions about the limitations of that system.

It all seems pretty reasonable and undemanding to me... :coffee:
 
Now, if by simple you mean (and Doc Harry you probably do) more streamlined, simpler construction, minimalist, fewer failure points, etc. Then of course the BP/W wins hands down.

What I can see is a rational debate over the pros and cons of two different BCD systems... and an attempt by BP&W users to 'myth bust' some common misperceptions about the limitations of that system.

Interesting terminology DD :coffee:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba...045-help-get-bc-myths-tested-mythbusters.html

An SB search on this subject brings up one train wreck after another, because some of the facts used by the BP/W camp to "myth bust" are not facts; just anecdotal opinion. :shakehead:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/345954-jacket-bc-back-plate-wing.html

Let's take a look at STREAMLINING!


http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba...-bcd-jacket-vest-style-vs-back-inflation.html

halemanō;5378018:
AFAICT, streamlining is a red herring discussion with regards to the three BC categories, since there is no scientific data on the subject. I'd venture to say there isn't even any non-scientific data on the subject. All I see on this subject is opinionated anecdotes. :idk:

My "other" job is pool cleaning, and I hope to someday find an "endless pool" that I can make some tests in. :eyebrow:

My anecdotal opinion is that since a good majority of the leading edge of the vest BC bladder is drafting in the divers shoulder "shadow" and NONE of the other two BC's have any part of the leading edge of the bladder drafting at all, it is hard for me to imagine that either of the two that have the entire leading bladder edge dragging are going to have less drag than the one with the majority of bladder leading edge drafting. :coffee:
I totally agree. Like you, I often see claims of BPs being much more streamlined but as far as I have seen there is no research on the subject. My bet is a well sized jacket BC with hoses properly stowed is actually more streamlined than any other with the exception of the horse collar which is most likely the most streamlined of them all. Now by streamlined, I am not talking about how it looks but how it actually cuts through the water. While the jacket style and to some extent most back inflates (BI)have pockets and other irregular surfaces on the front, the BP and BI have a large floppy bladder with a large surface area as opposed to the smooth transition from the shoulder down the bladder of a jacket style. The jacket style may have more actual surface area but it is more rounded and flowing than the bladder of a BP or BI. The actual surface area of the BC is not the surface area that needs to be considered. A couple of thin straps on a divers chest of a BP may look more streamlined but when you take into consideration the area of the divers chest covered in a wetsuit it is basically the same total area as the frontal area of a properly fitting jacket BC the difference becomes small. The real difference in streamlining between the 2 is in the rear of the BC and that is where the jacket style wins. From personal observation I do know (or maybe feel is more correct) that the bladder on a BP adds a huge amount of drag. I often remove the bladder -fairly small 24 lb one- from my BP and dive with no bladder. I can tell a big difference in how I glide between frog kicks. If anyone has links to a study on the streamlining of BCs I would love to read it.

Herman and I are both still waiting... :idk:
 
Well I am not aware of any study on the hydrodynamic properties of BP/W vs. jacket BCD...but I can tell you that my BP/W has far less material and fits far more snugly to my body than any jacket style BCD I have worn. That is measurable.

Hose routing and danglies have nothing to do with it.

Perhaps most of the myth busting "facts" are opinion and anecdote has to do with the fact that most myths about BP/W are exactly that as well, such as the one in the article that spawned this thread. The fact is they are not more complicated than any other bcd, and perhaps more simple than most, depending on configurations.

Now while I am very happy with my BP/W and do indeed find this system superior than the other systems I am familiar with in every way for my diving, I have very few real complaints about the other units I dive, and most of those are comfort and stability of the bcd. They pertain only to me.

There is no advantage in putting an OW student in a jacket over a bp/w. There is nothing wrong with diving in a jacket. It is personal choice, until you start doing a specific type of diving that requires a bp/w setup.

I see no reason to bash or look down on either way.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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