Judging a diver's experience: logging number of dives and hours of dive time

[Belzelbub]

It's not common to see divers with no sea water experience, though still possible.
But a dive instructor with no sea water experience ?

Depends a lot on location. I would be surprised if a dive instructor based in coastal FL has no sea dives, but less surprised in FL cave country, or Michigan for example. Lots of places have dive locations without access to the sea.

 

[Ghost95]

You think freshwater experience is useless? Divers wreck diving on the North American Great Lakes are probably more skilled than the average tropical recreational diver. Cold water, drysuits, lower viz, etc.

Yeah, well, nobody's ever been swallowed by a Jaguar Shark diving the Great Lakes!!!

 

[Marie13]

Yeah, well, nobody's ever been swallowed by a Jaguar Shark diving the Great Lakes!!!

Great Lakes: Unsalted and Shark Free

We might have minimal marine life, but the awesome wrecks more than make up for it, IMO.

 

[boulderjohn]

The title of this thread mentions judging a diver's experience. Who is doing this judging? No one has looked at my log book since it was required for instructor, and that was a long time ago. When I register for a dive, they sometimes ask how many dives I have, but that is on my honor, and I suspect it is only important if the number is really low.

As it turns out, I do still log my dives. In that log, I put whatever I feel like, depending upon the dive. Sometimes if is close to nothing. Sometimes it is several pages. (I use blank pages in a small, loose leaf book.) I do have the number of the dive, and I do have total hours. Neither number is really important at all, but I still do them. The total hours is kind of a personal satisfaction thing. First I wanted to see how many days I had spent under water, then it was weeks, then it was months....

I do not use a computer log book because it is more work than I want to do. For example, as an instructor, I frequently do a dive of a couple minutes to set something up. I don't log those dives, but my computer does, so it is a pain to go in and delete them.

 

[Marie13]

Who is doing the judging? You’re at the quarry or on a boat with an instabuddy. They’re putting their gear together and they put their yoke reg on tank upside down. Doesn’t give you warm fuzzies.

 

[boulderjohn]

Who is doing the judging? You’re at the quarry or on a boat with an instabuddy. They’re putting their gear together and they put their yoke reg on tank upside down. Doesn’t give you warm fuzzies.

So do you then say, "Show me your damn log book!"?

We are talking about log books in this thread, aren't we?

 

[Jay Adams]

It is often debated how to judge a diver's experience. One way is to log number of dives and/or hours of dive time. I would be interesting in seeing if SB participants deal with these variables.

The question of judging experience is different from judging competence. The latter may really only be judged by observation of performance. There are many other ways to potentially judge experience, such as certifications or certification level. Duration of certification is probably not a good discriminator, by itself. Feel free to discuss these other methods of judging experience in your post.

I do not physically record my dives. I have a video log

 

[Wibble]

I do not physically record my dives. I have a video log

Paralenz?

 

[kmarks]

The title of this thread mentions judging a diver's experience. Who is doing this judging? No one has looked at my log book since it was required for instructor, and that was a long time ago.

I think the only time that checking a diver's log book is actually relevant for for educational/training purposes. When I started in my DM class, the shop actually went through my log book to gauge the variety of my dives, my total dive count and dive time, and to make sure that I had some of the prerequisites, like having done at least 5 night or low-vis dives. By the time I took AI, they knew me well enough that they didn't ask to see any further proof (and most of my dives since DM have been with the shop or the escorting the club anyway).

I keep track of all of my dives in the original dive logbook I got when I did my PADI OW, as well as electronically on the mySSI app. I even had to add some pages to the paper log book. I think of it as my written/typed journal to go back and review what I saw, how I felt, what conditions were like, who I dove with, how much weight I needed, etc., and I do go back and look at it quite often.

I can't think of any reason why a dive op would need to see somebody's logbook to take them on a dive, but I can definitely understand why they might want to before taking you on as an instructor or DM. It's like a resume of your experience. Living in the midwest, about half of my dives have been in freshwater, including wrecks in the Great Lakes. My deepest (and coldest dive) was in Lake Michigan, and my most challenging dive was actually a shore dive off of Los Angeles. I have details written about each of these experiences.

I do agree, though, that a diver's number of dives and total bottom time or even certification level are not always the best indication of how good of a diver they are. If somebody has always been doing something the wrong way, doing it more only makes it worse. The only real way to determine if somebody is a good diver is to watch them be a good diver.

 

[boulderjohn]

Who is doing the judging? You’re at the quarry or on a boat with an instabuddy. They’re putting their gear together and they put their yoke reg on tank upside down. Doesn’t give you warm fuzzies.

This post reminded me of a lesson I learned long ago about this topic.

I signed up for the dive the evening before, and the owner of the shop handled the transaction. He knew me from previous experiences, and, as usual, I showed an instructor card. When I got on the boat the next day, the DM showed me a spot and asked about a buddy, because buddies were required with that operator. I didn't have one. He turned to the people next to my spot, a father and son team who were starting to set up their gear, and asked if I could join them. "I don't know," groused the father, clearly unhappy. "Does he know what he's doing?"

"I don't know," replied the DM. He turned to me. "Do you know what you're doing?"

His attitude in asking it was so very condescending, especially coupled with the father's arrogance and unfriendliness, that I was totally pissed. I simply said, "I've got a fair idea."

So it was set--we were a team. As I set up my gear, I saw the father and son were having trouble because they had done some of it wrong. I very politely stepped in to show them how to set up their gear. I then sat down and waited for the boat to leave. At that point the owner of the operation got on--he was diving as a passenger that day. Seeing me, he stopped by to chat. He asked me who I was diving with, and when I pointed to my new buddies, his eyes grew wide with horror. He hurried off to a different part of the boat, talked quietly with some people, returned, and scooted me over to my new buddy team. I had a great dive with them. At one point, we saw the father and son team, who were nearly hopeless under water.

So my lesson is that getting pissed at the DM and refusing to tell my true diving level was a serious mistake that would have cost me badly if the owner hadn't been diving that day. Since then, when I am a single diver, I make sure when registering with a new company that they have good idea of my diving experience so that they can help me find a suitable companion. I do not understand the people who intentionally hide their abilities so that the operator will believe they are rank beginners and treat them accordingly.

And the log book has nothing to do with it, since no one sees it.