Judging a diver's experience: logging number of dives and hours of dive time

[Wibble]

This post reminded me of a lesson I learned long ago about this topic.

I signed up for the dive the evening before, and the owner of the shop handled the transaction. He knew me from previous experiences, and, as usual, I showed an instructor card. When I got on the boat the next day, the DM showed me a spot and asked about a buddy, because buddies were required with that operator. I didn't have one. He turned to the people next to my spot, a father and son team who were starting to set up their gear, and asked if I could join them. "I don't know," groused the father, clearly unhappy. "Does he know what he's doing?"

"I don't know," replied the DM. He turned to me. "Do you know what you're doing?"

His attitude in asking it was so very condescending, especially coupled with the father's arrogance and unfriendliness, that I was totally pissed. I simply said, "I've got a fair idea."

So it was set--we were a team. As I set up my gear, I saw the father and son were having trouble because they had done some of it wrong. I very politely stepped in to show them how to set up their gear. I then sat down and waited for the boat to leave. At that point the owner of the operation got on--he was diving as a passenger that day. Seeing me, he stopped by to chat. He asked me who I was diving with, and when I pointed to my new buddies, his eyes grew wide with horror. He hurried off to a different part of the boat, talked quietly with some people, returned, and scooted me over to my new buddy team. I had a great dive with them. At one point, we saw the father and son team, who were nearly hopeless under water.

So my lesson is that getting pissed at the DM and refusing to tell my true diving level was a serious mistake that would have cost me badly if the owner hadn't been diving that day. Since then, when I am a single diver, I make sure when registering with a new company that they have good idea of my diving experience so that they can help me find a suitable companion. I do not understand the people who intentionally hide their abilities so that the operator will believe they are rank beginners and treat them accordingly.

And the log book has nothing to do with it, since no one sees it.

You were lucky that you didn't end up working as an unpaid DiveMaster that day where you give up your dive to save the lives of people who won't thank you for it.

And.. ironically.. you'd have been diving solo even though you're allegedly "buddying" with the novices.

It's far safer diving solo!

 

[Akimbo]

It is often debated how to judge a diver's experience.

This brings two more questions to mind:

1. What do I want this information for?
2. Experience at what?

For most recreational non-tech divers, I suppose it boils down to will this person be a danger to others or themselves. As already eluded to, location experience matters — an instructor with thousands of dives in the South Pacific may not be safe diving off Norway or New England.

I have known US Navy Master Divers that were useless on Scuba. Not that they were unsafe but don't expect them to get anything done before draining a set of doubles. Surface supplied divers don't conserve gas or concern themselves with finding their way back to the boat.

Knowing what marine life and artifacts to avoid can be important. I was on a dive charter at San Clemente Island when when guy emptied a goody bag on deck with bricks of C3 tied together with det cord and a belt of 50 cal shells. I wouldn't know what cone shells to avoid in the tropics.

Location experience may not translate to task experience. Wreck, science surveys, hunting, photography, and cave diving come to mind. Divers may not realize they are scaring away pray, ruining your images, or entering hard overheads that can turn ink black in seconds. Just because I can replace hydraulic hoses at 200M in the North Sea does NOT mean you can trust me to log different species of nudibranchs. In fact, I suck as a dive buddy unless my task is to babysit or be a bodyguard.

 

[DavidFL]

I'm currently using Subsurface and downloading from one of my dive computers. I have Subsurface running from the cloud logbook on two laptops, an Android phone, and an Apple Ipad, but 90% of my use of it is on the Android phone. For the first couple of decades since I started diving I didn't keep a log and that is probably when I was most active, since I was teaching then. I started my first paper logbook when my son got certified in the mid-90s. I got my first (hose-air-integrated) computer with a wired serial port to computer interface in about 2008 I think, so I have the computer record since then. I use Subsurface to keep track of configurations, and weights, and things about my SCUBA rig and camera rig that need attention or adjustment before my next dive and/or trip. Looking at dive profiles after most dives over the last fifteen years or so has resulted in me being much more conscious and careful about ascent rates, and in the last year or so occasionally watching GFsurf on the computer and on the profile after the dive has again improved my personal understanding and experience of applied dive physics, and again made me more conscious of ascent/rate from the last deco or safety stop to the surface. Number of dives and hours, unfortunately, have mostly become indicators and reminders that I'm not diving as much as I intend to dive. The computer logbook has become my diving diary.

 

[Wibble]

that a diver's number of dives and total bottom time or even certification level are not always the best indication of how good of a diver they are. If somebody has always been doing something the wrong way, doing it more only makes it worse. The only real way to determine if somebody is a good diver is to watch them be a good diver.

Praise be.

Zero to hero DiveMASTERs for example. Loads of dives, but a very narrow range of skills and experience.

What's someone like underwater when things go awry? For example someone kicks out the visibility, etc. Can they throw up an SMB, hold a stop, how they fin and control their buoyancy, etc. Can often tell within a couple of seconds in the water.

 

[inquis]

So my lesson is that getting pissed at the DM and refusing to tell my true diving level was a serious mistake that would have cost me badly if the owner hadn't been diving that day.

I could see this working against you to where you are intentionally paired with "less suitable" companions to ease the load on the DM. I've been fortunate to not have been in an insta-buddy role, so I really don't know how I would answer that question in the moment -- probably as sarcastically as you did.

 

[kelemvor]

I think we should judge by cumulative total depth. A diver that has dived over a mile should be considered an accomplished diver. 10 miles should be required for DM type jobs and 100 miles for instructor.

 

[Kimela]

The latter may really only be judged by observation of performance.

I believe this is most important. I've met divers who proudly say "I'm a Master Diver" who tear up the reef, or a couple who had just finished Rescue and completely ignored the dive briefing for the Spiegel and descended and ascended nowhere near the line (which could have been disastrous if there had been current or if the current changed during the dive).

My current computer has a 'statistics' page that shows how many dives I have on it (100) and average bottom time (61 min). It's the only computer I have any of that information saved from, so I have no idea how much bottom time I really have. In the end, if I'm 'doing it wrong' I will have been practicing 'doing it wrong' for a long time. What matters is my performance in the water - IMO.

 

[Ghost95]

Great Lakes: Unsalted and Shark Free

We might have minimal marine life, but the awesome wrecks more than make up for it, IMO.

Isn't there a big monster in one of those lakes up there? I hope you have a 1960's BFK!

 

[boulderjohn]

You were lucky that you didn't end up working as an unpaid DiveMaster that day where you give up your dive to save the lives of people who won't thank you for it.

That's the most common myth in scuba.

I have never been asked to mind a beginning diver--NEVER. I have always had dive operators give me an experience appropriate to my certification. Believe it or not, dive operators want their divers to be happy, and they especially want instructors to want to come back and bring others with them. The idea that operators say, "Hey! An instructor! Let's f**k him over!" is ludicrous. If someone were to try to do that with me, I would demand compensation.

 

[boulderjohn]

I could see this working against you to where you are intentionally paired with "less suitable" companions to ease the load on the DM. I've been fortunate to not have been in an insta-buddy role, so I really don't know how I would answer that question in the moment -- probably as sarcastically as you did.

As I just wrote, that has never happened. Quite the opposite.

A few years ago I did a recreational dive on a boat with 24 divers. We were slit into 3 groups. My group's DM explained that our group was filled with highly experienced divers who would get a special divee, and we did. The other two groups were beginning divers and would be doing beginning dives. Our group splashed first and got out last. I conder how many instructors were in those groups thinking "Ha! Ha! I fooled them! I got to dive with the beginners!"